View Full Version : Acorn?
10-10-2008, 02:32 PM
Does anyone have the scoop on this one? I'm still trying to sort out how adding fake names to rosters would help the Democrats. I honestly don't recall, but don't you have to show an ID to vote? (It makes sense to me, but I could totally be off-base) So, for this "scheme" to work, wouldn't Dems have to be registering all these fake names, then getting people hundreds of fake IDs?
Seems like a bit of a waste and ass-backwards, to me. Also seems like the folks at ACORN have been cooperating with authorities, firing the ex-cons (gasp!) who were being lazy and filling in fake names (which seems more likely than the purported "fraud"), and generally doing what they should be doing.
What are the accusations being made here, exactly? Or is it just sending up the flag of "Fraud!" to scare folks? I mean, if this is getting investigated with this much vigor, how come the Democrats aren't vigorously investigating the purported voter roll cullings?
I'm at a loss.
10-10-2008, 02:46 PM
10-10-2008, 03:17 PM
Don't absentee ballots get processed in some way that confirms the ID of the people casting the ballot?
I'm actually pretty curious about the systems- the touch-screen voting system seems woefully inadequate, and if you can stuff ballots with absentee votes, how come everyone isn't doing it?
I got some wikipedia'ing to do.
10-10-2008, 04:17 PM
I never understood the fear of electronic or touch screen voting. Especially if you've lived in Chicago for any amount of time (or Boston, or New York for that matter). I mean paper ballots have been rigged, "missinged", and graveyards have been voted here before...
Electronic systems can be set up to leave a proper trail as well, just as paper systems do.
Maybe is just a case of "don't trust these newfangled thingamabobs..."
10-10-2008, 05:57 PM
Though they can be set up to leave a paper trail, it's when they aren't that bothers me. The fact that it's a default to *not* leave a paper trail means it's comparatively easy to screw with the numbers. Paper ballots, for all their issues, can be physically counted, while I can delete all your votes with a flick of my finger, if I know how the computer works.
That's my problem.
When I've used electronic ballots before (Chicago and in Texas) the electronic machine prints out a paper record of activity along with its electronic storage of the vote.
Whereas a paper ballot has no secondary safety backup.
10-10-2008, 08:34 PM
Absentee ballots can likely be manipulated to cast votes for people who have moved out of state or died, or maybe who are in the military. Honestly, I don't think you can make people up and cast absentee ballots for them, unless the laws in other states are different than Michigan.
In order to request an absentee ballot by mail, (at least in Michigan, where I learned about this while canvassing), you must have voted before in the state. If you are registering for the first time, you have to take your paperwork requesting an absentee ballot to the county clerk in person, so your identity can be verified (or your aliveness). They will then issue you an absentee ballot that you can send in. If you've registered and voted before, you can mail in an application requesting an absentee ballot, and receive the ballot in the mail, and then send it back in the mail.
Now, I don't know how carefully they check the requests for absentee ballots. If I moved from Illinois to Ohio, and someone wanted to send in a request for an absentee ballot in my name in Illinois, would the county clerk check to see if I still lived in-state? How would they know? Or what if I died? Do they check death records for people who request absentee ballots?
On one hand, I assume they do - on the other hand, do they have time?
Regarding electronic voting - yes, they can give a receipt. Does it print out a receipt that my voting place keeps for comparison? Do I get to look at it and confirm it is correct? I know that in 2006 I didn't get a copy of my receipt, and did not get to check a receipt. How do I know it's correct?
In Ohio in 2004, there was a district that had a liberal, black female running for judge. She won with more than 60% of the vote. Bush also won the same district with about 60%. Sound likely that 20% of voters voted for them both? This district had electronic voting machines (good ol' Diebold!)
10-10-2008, 09:57 PM
So, what it comes down to is, my vote means nothing. I hate this fucked up system. How come this hasn't been overhauled? It really needs it. A three year old could figure out how to rig an election. Fuck.
10-13-2008, 12:25 AM
If most Americans think ACORN = voter fraud, then the republicans won the spin game on that one.
In Nevada the ACORN chapter out there willingly submitted all of the questionable applications, but the BoE didn't do anything about it. Then they do a "raid", and what happens is that ACORN ends up looking crooked.
"Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have reviewed all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.
For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.
Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.
On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.
Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."
At the end of the day, ACORN has registered 1.3 million voters (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/10/75639/882), 60% of which are Latino and African American. This is an obvious sign that the GOP is desperate to change the narrative. Unfortunately, the MSM whiffed on this one.
10-13-2008, 05:17 AM
A posting today Daily Kos talked about the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud. The two aren't the same, but some Republicans would like you to think they are. Why? Because they might be adding fuel to the idea of an election "stolen by the Democrats."
I'm glad the ACORN stuff is being investigated now. Isn't that what we're supposed to have? Honest registration?
After all, I don't want some non-existent person showing up voting at MY polling place.... :eek:
vBulletin® v3.8.3, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.