Hillary Clinton

[rdolan]

Please go to her web site, and tell her what you think of her not conceding the race with grace and dignity.

www.hillaryclinton.com

Click on "contact us."

[nichbob]

good call Ryan.

while i think she had every right to take a night to celebrate the good fight she fought and not have to concede in front of a group of enthusiastic supporters...she clearly was far to defiant last night. she seems to be publicly painting President Obama into a corner to force him to offer her VP. i just don't like it.

She has an amazing opportunity as single-handedly holding the most power to quickly unify the party. She blew it last night, but I hold out hope that she will redeem herself in the next few days.

Also, how awful was McCain's speech?

[robbersean]

As soon as Hillary was done speaking last night, I went to her web site to send her a message asking her to concede.

I was really struck last night by the contrast between the three speeches given. McCain tried very hard to distance himself from Bush, but just ended up looking tired, and old. He also picked an odd night to give his "distancing myself from Bush" speech.

Hillary was a littler more energetic, but I actually got mad while I was watching her speak. I didn't expect her to concede, but I also didn't expect her to once again claim that she won the popular vote, and ask her supporters to e-mail her web site with what they thought. Of course her supporters are going to ask her to fight. Did you see that crowd last night? They looked pissed.

And then there was Obama. One of the CNN pundits called him the "Secretariat of Speeches". And what a great speech that was. The guy barely talked about himself. He talked graciously about Senator Clinton, and he talked about us, and what we're going to do.

[rdolan]

She has the opportunity to be the leading voice in the Democratic party and the country for the next twenty years, but that largely depends on her actions in the next few days. If she hasn't made a graceful concession by Friday, she will see the tide turn on her. Clinton's strength and fight have been very impressive during the election. I certainly didn't think she needed to drop out before the last primary even though I may have wanted her to do so, personally.

America doesn't like a sore loser. They like losers with grace and humility. America embraces them actually. Every day from here on out that she doesn't concede, she erodes her power and goodwill.

[speedymarie]

After the way she has totally bashed Obama as inexperienced, the way she's said he'll be a terrible president, I don't think she has ANY right to expect the VP nomination.

[rdolan]

I could see her in a cabinet position provided she concedes by Friday.

There is absolutely no way Clinton will be the v.p. or will be asked. Not a chance.

[Schoolyj]

I could see her in a cabinet position provided she concedes by Friday.

There is absolutely no way Clinton will be the v.p. or will be asked. Not a chance.


I would agree with this for a couple of reasons: the way she's dug her heels in this last month or so, and the danger of having Clinton shenanigans upstaging an Obama campaign/presidency.

But...

Obama's speech was VERY pro-Clinton, including her in changes he envisions for this country. He referred to her explicitly early on when he talked about healthcare reform; then later again implicitly when he mentioned the economic policies of the Clinton era.

Plus - both camps yesterday were using the phrase of having taken this "journey together" which is a nice little though-packet that could allow them to justify a joint campaign, and fits with Obama's rhetorical style: Journeys are never easy and we don't always agree on the path to take; Our differences on this Journey have made us stronger; The Journey of a skinny kid with a funny name - not to mention all the Ellis Island/Pioneer type stuff a decent speech writer could pinch out.

I'm not sure how I would feel about it, but there would certainly be a lot of excitement around a joint ticket. I like Hilary in a lot of ways, and wish she would get on board with the party a little more.

Obama's thing of meeting with Hil at the "time of her choosing" keeps sticking in my head. That's a strange way to put it. But I think it's pretty clear he wants her to concede before he's willing to discuss her place in his campaign. Ryan is right that Hilary needs to make her concession clear in the next few days or she's going to burn out whatever good will she has left.

It should be really interesting.

[Biddle]

Oh, I think that was all rhetoric. Positive spin on some really atrocious behavior coming out of the Clinton campaign. His way of saying, "Let's look past the terrible behavior of her uncontrolled ego and focus on the positive change that she brought about, to serve as her calling card for this campaign." I think it was also a very clear message that her and her "historical" campaign are over. Whether she wants to admit it or not.

I really don't give a flying fuck if she concedes or not. She can keep campaigning indefinitely, if she wants to, to smaller and smaller groups of people, distancing herself from her party. It's over. She didn't get the bid. And that's what she ultimately has to reconcile with herself.

And for the record, I know that being the first female president has been a HUGE driving force for her, but let's leave off as using gender as our calling card, henceforth, shall we? You did nothing to decide your gender (or your color for that matter). You have no control over it, going forward. It is niether a burden, nor a gift, nor a calling card, nor a credential. Be the best president that you possibly can be and leave off reminding us of the physiological facts that we clearly can see for ourselves.

Hillary Clinton has become the David Brent of this election season.

[Chip]

Obama did have a very pro-Clinton speech, but I don't think it was necessarily a speech designed to court her for VP. I think it was more to court her supporters so they'll be more enthusiastic toward Obama during the general election.

Honestly, I try to be impartial towards Hillary, but she keeps doing these things to make me not like her. Just so very calculating at every step. No heart.

-Chip

[Schoolyj]

Obama did have a very pro-Clinton speech, but I don't think it was necessarily a speech designed to court her for VP. I think it was more to court her supporters so they'll be more enthusiastic toward Obama during the general election.

-Chip

Yeah, that's just as likely.

It was the way he placed her in the future. Paraphrasing: When X change happens it will be because of the work of Hilary Clinton. He really shied away from putting any past-tense statements on her. Maybe I'm over-analyzing it.

What I think is happening right now is the political equivalent of an arguing couple deciding to have make up sex. Neither one wants to make the first move and take a submissive role, but man, do they know how mind-blowing fucking would be right now.

Obama knows he's better off with strong support from Hilary but he can't allow himself to be perceived as "needing" Hilary to win in Novemeber. Hilary doesn't want to admit she blew her best chance to be president to a guy whose call she wouldn't have taken 6 years ago, and knows she could keep her aspirations alive as VP. For her I think, conceding relegates her to the realm of Ted Kennedy and Joe Biden - guys who ran multiple times but lost when they had their best chance.

Nix the Kennedy comparison - just checked Wiki - he only ran once, I thought he ran a few times.

[Biddle]

What I think is happening right now is the political equivalent of an arguing couple deciding to have make up sex. Neither one wants to make the first move and take a submissive role, but man, do they know how mind-blowing fucking would be right now.

If I had a dollar for every time Jamie compared something to "mind-blowing make-up sex", I would be a very rich man.

At Stinger Rehearsal.
"Edison, that scene was like... um... really GOOD, mind-blowing, make-up sex. I didn't want it to end. And I thought about doing something naughty, just so that I could have it again. Does that make any sense?"

"No."

After-show notes...
"Well, the opening scene was a little slow, but I don't think that I need to discuss that. I didn't like it. I felt bad about it. But then the second scene made me lower my defenses. It came up behind me like a lover and wrapped it's arms around me and was like... let's see... really mind-blowing make-up sex. Yes, that second scene was like insane, crazy, shame-free, forceful, make-up sex."

Getting a Drink at the bar...
"This beer is pretty good. You know what this is like? This is just like angry, forced love-making when you're lover has offended you and you want them, but you don't want to admit it and you allow them to enter you and you can't deny the sheer "rightness" of your coupling. I want to take this beer out in the back alley and grudge-fuck it. Like, a lot. I want to fuck my beer a lot."

It's a really bad habit of his. But we indulge him...

[Edison]

For Hillary to expect an Obama/Clinton ticket at this point would be massive hubris on her part. But it's been clear that she has a sense of entitlement, and it wouldn't surprise me if she refused to concede if not given the VP nod.

It's already been argued that an Obama/Clinton ticket would be "too much" change for undecided moderates and conservatives, and "not enough" for supporters of each candidate.
..And ultimately, a win for McCain in November.

Some feel strongly that Obama simply needs to distance himself from both Clintons politically because they're part of the old-game politics. I thought Bill Clinton was an okay President, but he, and clearly Hillary, play the bullshit games that Obama wants to rise above and move beyond.
That's been a part of his call to change. He has been taking the higher road all along and it's sending a deep message to those who are paying attention and not getting caught up in all the talking points and posturing.

Hillary may not want anything less than VP, but she'd still be smart to accept an Obama cabinet position if offered one. It could heal things a bit and actually help her image. If she genuinely does want to improve things in this country she needs to get over herself and realize that she still has more power to effect change now than she ever had as a Senator or even "first lady".

Meanwhile, she hasn't conceded yet. If she becomes even more stubborn and shrewish about this I sincerely hope the Democratic party marginalizes her and Bill. Good riddance.

Bill could be spending more time chasing tail and shooting golf with George Bush.

[stevescholz]

She blew it. She lost momentum last night in two shocking ways.

First, by asking her supporters (and anyone visiting her website) what her next steps should be. That's not leadership. I understand the "let the people decide" theme is popular with her, but most people have already decided. And for her to check in with her supporters now for a direction to go shows she doesn't know what to do. This is turning point for her, a moment for strong action, and she's looking to someone else for her decisions. I don't want someone like that running my country.

Second, to say that the people who voted for her still need to be heard makes is sound like they have nowhere else to go. And it again ignores the difference between the primaries and the general election. Even if all of the nearly 18 million people who voted for her still support her now, or decided to not vote in the general election, there are more than 100 million other registered US voters (source: 2004 Census). And that number may be low based on voter registration increases this year. By ignoring reality, Sen. Clinton has caused more self-damage.

She will not be the VP because 1) she would overshadow Obama, 2) she would be blamed if things go badly this fall, 3) she's not the "change in Washington" that Obama bases his campaign on, and 4) he has a policy of taking the high road throughout his campaign.

I predict Obama will pick Gov. Richardson as his running mate. I predict the Clintons could be in the cabinet, but Hillary could more likely be Senate Majority Leader.

But this idea just hit me yesterday.....

What if the Clintons became the first husband and wife team on the US Supreme Court?

You heard it hear first.

Steve

[hixx]

What if the Clintons became the first husband and wife team on the US Supreme Court?

You heard it hear first.

Steve

I'm still getting over my annoyance of her, just like her supporters have to get over their annoyance of him. I don't like her right now and wish she would stop, and I think Bill is saying some crazy things...

But that is the greatest idea ever.


LOVE it.

Hixx

[rdolan]

I think there was a piece a week or two about promising Hillary a place in the Supreme Court the next time a spot opened up.

There are a great many things that could happen including that.

The only thing that won't happen is her being the v.p. She's burned her bridges and there's a lot of animosity against her in Obama's camp. It would be demoralizing to the staff and to his base if he picked her.

Another reason he won't pick her is that she's v.p. then anything Bill makes headlines for takes away from the Obama administration. There's no way they're going to do deal with that possible distraction(s).

Cabinet position. Strong possibility.
Supreme Court. Possible.
V.P. No.


Possible v.p. candidates:
Gov Kathleen Sebelius - Kansas
Gov. Tim Kaine - Virgnina
Sen. Jim Webb - Virgina
Sen. Claire McCaskill - Missouri
Gov. Janet Napolitano

[Chip]

Bill on the Supreme Court? A guy who we all are pretty sure lied under oath? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

Hillary isn't exactly squeaky clean either. I'm suspicious of Whitewater, and the police never did solve that Vince Foster thing, either.

[JRC]

I think Hillary will get a cabinent post but no access.
Bill will be an ambassador.

[rdolan]

Bill gets to fly around billionaire's jets with them and their 19 year old girlfriends, and makes six figures for his speeches.

He also runs a foundation that does good deeds and gives him great press.

I don't think Bill Clinton is looking for a job.

[stevescholz]

Bill on the Supreme Court? A guy who we all are pretty sure lied under oath? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

Hillary isn't exactly squeaky clean either. I'm suspicious of Whitewater, and the police never did solve that Vince Foster thing, either.

Then there's the whole impeachment and disbarment thing. And yeah, there may be some other issues of "judgment" which may come under scrutiny for each of them.

But it would amount to an amazing legacy. They would certainly leave their mark on generations to come.

If it doesn't happen in an Obama administration, there's always the (Chelsea) Clinton administration.

:D

[stevescholz]

Clinton Likely to Suspend Bid on Friday (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/us/politics/04cnd-campaign.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin)