CageMatch Beef

[POPS]

So Rumspringa lost this past Saturday Night to Uncle Pecos. Congrats Pecos. But for me it was just a good final time to be on stage w/ my crew at IO. seein as we never got to do our "final show" after being cut back in the day. So I was pumped to close the door on my chicago performance career for a while. But I must say I even though we lost on Saturday night it didn't really bother me until the end of the show. so here's my beef w/ Cagematch...

1. No stare down or intimidating pose down for 30 seconds to start? gizay.

2. At the end of the show our 2 judges, Morra and Chin, get to stand up and give notes their notes on the show and opinions in front of the crowd. I've got a big problem with this. Neither judge really liked our set. which is fine. It wasn't that good. But for a coach, or teacher, to stand up in front of both teams and the audience and then rip the shit out of your show, to put themselves over as a funny heel or just and asshole like Simon Cowell is bullshit. I must say that hearing Danny Morra rip us a new one really made my respect level drop for him. I knew he was always a follower of Rumspringa and has had some really nice things to say about us in the past. So to stand there at point blank range and take darts from him really sucked. It also made us look like untrained monkeys in front of our audience, and not professional iO alumni. As far as Chin goes he and I have had heat for a couple of years anyway, not like I'm the only one, but he pretty much did his smarmy, unfunny bit to put himself over.

My main point...I don't think it's beneficial to the end of cagematch to do an American Idol style bit, and then shoot on the people who may have had some respect for you at one time. It adds nothing positive to the show and only makes improvisers talk shit about them post show and sets up for future disrespect from the players you insulted.

Not givin a fuck about being cut from a schedule or being put on a team-
POPS

[Run]

2. At the end of the show our 2 judges, Morra and Chin, get to stand up and give notes their notes on the show and opinions in front of the crowd

That's as lame and self-gratifying as it gets. Congrats, IO. You've jumped the shark.

[Landmine]

I'd say let it go Pops, the gettin' notes thing was weird, but it was funny, and I didn't take it all sooo seriously, it was a good night playin with the old team, and that was enough for me.

[POPS]

I'd say let it go Pops, the gettin' notes thing was weird, but it was funny, and I didn't take it all sooo seriously, it was a good night playin with the old team, and that was enough for me.

Oh I've definitely already let it go. my pay off was being w/ all you fuckers again on stage for 1 more go round. I mainly posted this to say that this format sucks and adds nothing positive to the show or theater, and it makes the "veterans" look like assholes. off of that they may wanna switch things up. you were funny though.

racist-
POPS

[EdO]

That's as lame and self-gratifying as it gets.

I have to agree, mysterious "Run". My first reaction to reading that was an actual cringe. Talk about surgically removing the fun from a formerly fun idea. Hey, another chance to judge.

I remember when the Cagematch started. It was fun because you got teams from other theaters. It was fun because the audience got to vote. It was fun because no one took it too fucking seriously. Kevin Mullaney created a fun show that brought hordes of drink-buying-money-spenders to a formerly empty Friday night room.

The thought of standing on a stage, getting NOTES from a couple of self-appointed experts is nauseating. As a performer, I'd probably walk off. As an audience member, I'd continue my conversation with the friends I went out to have a good time with.

"Look out, Fonzie!!!"

[...Cesar J.]

I wouldn't waste too much time being angry over the cagematch and it's rules.
It's the cagematch people, not an audition.

I might be wrong, but I thought the teams competing knew that the judging element was just another fun spin that the people running the cagematch thought was needed for the show.

The judges don't appoint themselves, they are asked to do it. They don't go up there thinking they are above you or anyone else, but, they are asked to inject a little fun into their judging. Yes, some take it a bit too far, but it's all in the spirit of fun. As far as I understand it.

Also, the cagematch is not run by the theater, so one can't blame iO for the process or for "trying to make you look bad".
But, you ARE playing on an iO stage, and you did agree to be judged in front of an audience by your peers. (Some of which at some point could have been your teacher and or coach)
For this particular cagematch series, the quality of the shows matter a whole lot more because in the end, the winner gets to play on the iO stage for a whole schedule.
So yeah, some judges might go a little too far, but again, they are asked to fuck with you a bit if you or your team takes a shit on stage because of how high the stakes are this time.

So instead of focusing any type of anger on the actual judges, I suggest maybe taking this up with the people that run the cagematch if it really bothers you that much.

I know my opinion wasn't asked, but having been a judge myself, I felt like I had to explain the process a little. I'd hate for anyone to think I was a dick by doing what I was told to do, and I'd hate for anyone to think I was dick for being honest with them about MY opinion of the show, not iO's.

So again, it's the cagematch; have fun doing it.

Hope this didn't come off the wrong way.

[Ozone]

Hay, Beefers,

I agree that it did come off weird when the judges slammed the shows. I think the biggest (and perhaps only) problem is that there is no set-up of this bit. You can be a wacky racist in a scene if it has come up before hand, and people get what you're doing. Because there is no indication that the notes will be over-the-top harsh, it just seems mean to an unknowing audience. Gotta agree with Pops.

I think it's quite easy to fix this by winking to the American Idol thing, or making it clear at the top of the show that a harsh wind blows from the West over there in judge corner. Tell the audience what you're going to do, then do it. It works.

Don't think ill of the judges. They're doing what they're supposed to do, just that no one explained that to the audience and players.

[JRC]

To Anyone Signing Up To Do A Show;

Check out the show before you do it. Sometimes things (gasp!) change. The judges have been part of the Cagematch for all of 2007. Sometimes there are people who have been in the Cagematch or have seen it.. you can ask them if there have been any changes. Or ask the hosts, Brett and Seth, since they instituted any changes to the format.

The host of the show also announces and introduces the "American Idol like judges" at the very beginning of the show so it couldn't have been that big of a surprise to players or audience.
So, going on the Tonight Show and saying, "Hey, where's Johnny?" Is dumb.

I wonder if the judges would have been "assholes" if your team had won.

For the record, however, I asked if I could abstain from voting (giving points) and was told I could not. In the end, it didn't matter since the audience votes outweighed the judges.

Danny Mora only has one "r".

Don't be a Sanjaya.

Jason R. Chin
Smarmy, unfunny asshole:p

[POPS]

I wonder if the judges would have been "assholes" if your team had won.


Jason R. Chin
Smarmy, unfunny asshole

yah. you woulda been. cuz you even ripped the winners.

doing the j.o.b. and not winning doesn't bother me a bit. not like it's my dream to drive from Louisville to Chicago to face James Jackson. especially after being a part of that format on Saturday night.

part II...nailed it.

Benjamin B. Duerr
Deer Killer, Wrestling Mark

[EdO]

American Idol like judges?

Yup...Fonzie just hit the ramp.


We need more shows where performers are judged by their peers. There needs to be more judging.

[Landmine]

We need more shows where performers are judged by their peers. There needs to be more judging.

I chose to do Cagematch, so i chose to get judged, i 'm fine with it. You are talking like this is some sorta huge problem in the community, shows where folks judge their peers.

oh

IMPRESS THESE APES OPENS IN AUGUST!!!

CLEAR YOUR CALENDARS!!

[Omega]

I agree with JRC in every way that you should know what you are getting into and if you don't like it don't do it. It's common today when there are "judges" in shows like this that they be harsher than usual because that's the current trend with judging stuff like this. Though, I would like to compliment POPS on expertly incorporating wrestling lingo into his every day speech. Take the heel heat and run JRC.

[Tony]

My only "Beef" is that the brackets on the iO website are hard to read, and the big red REVENGE is giving me an aneurysm.

[Mikaela]

POOPS! my old team didnt even ask me to play. HAHAHAH!!! so at least you got to! i am going to be moved anyway at that point... but still. i think that's pretty hilarious!

[EdO]

Brackets. Yeah, improv is a basketball tournament now.

[POPS]

yer lucky I don't stooge you all out for using the HHH Silhouette as well. Vince McMahon would love to own an improv theater.

[POPS]

Though, I would like to compliment POPS on expertly incorporating wrestling lingo into his every day speech.


you have no idea how many times I say "gimmic" now everyday. it's almost becoming a tick.

everything is "gimmic", "work", or a "shoot" to these guys. and you can classify everything in life as one of these things.

work shoot-
POPS

[EdO]

You have no idea how often I'm able to fit "fuck cunty" into my everyday conversations with friends and loved ones.

[Shotts]

I'd like to officially request that the "CageMatch Beef" be made into a new food item on iO's menu.

Very lean roast beef. Spicy mustard, lettuce, tomato. Served on a Kaiser roll. Side of jalapeño chips.<O:p

Then we can figure out what's in the "Ugly Bitter Sister", the "Pimped Man-on-Man Kiss" and the "Shitty Object Work".

[Hendo]

You serve a Cagematch Beef with a Liar's Beer.

[Shotts]

Wow. We'd better get some sort of royalty fee out of this.

That sandwich/beer combo is going to save the theater.

[stonelake]

I have judged this thread, and I find it wanting. Do I assign some sort of numerical grade?

[JRC]

I have judged this thread, and I find it wanting. Do I assign some sort of numerical grade?

Pat, I am sorely disappointed in your post here. I was expecting so much more. The premise is obvious and trite and where is the patented Stonelake elan we have come to expect and relish? And it was a bit pitchy too, dog.

I have to vote for Shotts.

ps- can you sit-in with WNT this weekend?

[EdO]

Oh, I get it. One guy judged the thread, and then the next guy judged the post judging the thread.

Quick, what comic device did I just use in this post?

Make it clever please.

[Biddle]

Oh, I get it. One guy judged the thread, and then the next guy judged the post judging the thread.

Quick, what comic device did I just use in this post?

Make it clever please.

Whoopee Cushion?

Squirting Flower?

Joy Buzzer?

Rubber Chicken?

It was TOTALLY Rubber Chicken, wasn't it.

Nailed that one.

COB

[EdO]

No, it was partially rubber chicken.

[pHJason]

I think the theater did a pretty good job of setting expectations on this...what I don't like about the process is the rankings and "seedings", I know it is supposed to be fun, but it adds an element of insult in my opinion. The fact that Uncle Pecos had to play a play-in game means that the people in this tournament deemed Uncle Pecos and Rumpspringa the two worst teams in this tournament.

Why then would we want to play again, if people think that lowly of us? I just think it was a little smack in the balls, and not necessary. The brackets could have been figured out without numbers and stuff and it could have been just good natured fun, whereas now it seems like certain teams were given every obstacle possible to not get back on this schedule...if that's the case why let them play? Why even give them the glimmer of hope to get back on? Its not like the winner of this will necessarily be the best Harold team, it will be the team that brings the most folks (generally speaking), and its not like these teams are all out practicing just for the rare chance that they might get back on...

It just seemed a little judgmental in an art form and theater that is supposed to have no judgment.

[Tony]

I don't think the judging system and calling people out for sucking is the best idea for a show.

However, if you signed up, you should have known about it. And if you don't like the concept, don't do the show.

If I did a show, and a peer or whomever called me out for sucking in front of everyone, I would let her/him have it. I would make fun of their Mama, punch them, and tell them their object work was abhorrent. But if I signed up for a show in which judging was one of the bits, I would take it all in stride and in good humor. And relax my crack about the fucking thing.

That being said, I would never sign up for such a show.

[brannigan deluxe]

theater of the heart

[EdO]

You're all pawns.

[Omega]

everything is "gimmic", "work", or a "shoot" to these guys. and you can classify everything in life as one of these things.

work shoot-
POPS

Improv is a work shoot.

[Dayna]

Mmmm....beef.

http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/archive/index.php/t-1032.html

[professionalfaker]

The art is supposed to have no judgement - the administration of the art will always be judgement. That's all the arts. You go make what you want, and the gallery/theater/label/studio powers-that-be will rank, cut, rewrite, promote, and discard as they so desire.

[Fenstermaker]

You know what I miss? The light-hearted, good-natured CageMatch trash talking threads in the Corkboard. I haven't seen one of those for a while (and therefore didn't even realize another CM had started.)

Jill

[jimfath]

My problem with the cage match has always been two fold.
1) Filling the Seats Wins
the group who brings in the most people usually wins. I get this and I think it works in the theatres favor however there is always an unsettling feeling when the group with the poorer performance walks away victorious. But on the other hand you do give both teams full houses to perform for and that, in and of itself, is a good thing too.
2) There's No Cage!
There's never been a cage. how is this a cage match? a 10 yard section of 6' Cyclone fence from Menards would work. Where are the bamboo rods and canvas wrappings to dip in glue then broken glass? Where are the hoards of street urchins waiving their wads of money on their favorite teams as blood is sprayed across their snarling teeth? Where?
It would be great! Chin and Mora could slowly lurch out from behind a plume of thick smoke in black hooded robes as shirtless drummers banged away on large drums. A disfigured Mongoloid could suddenly crawl out of the ceiling, make his way down across the light mounts to a rope and pull on it to ring a large bell. That's when Mora and Chin would point at the two teams and say, in unison, "BEGIN".

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiNkYC5GeyQA9HejzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN 0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=1269080p2/EXP=1177530852/**http%3A//www.dvdfilmcenter.de/Bilder/bloodsport3.jpg

Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!

[Erdaron]

Improvisation does not need more gimmicks. I dislike competitive improv formats specifically because they always end up like this - people take them too seriously, and improv is no longer fun.

The only thing at stake should be doing a good show. Adding a tangible (and serious) reward destroys this. If iO wants to fill a slot on its schedule - why not have open auditions? How about scouting?

iO is supposed to be at the forefront of the artform - how is this accomplished by blindly sucking up to American Idol?

[Hendo]

ummm, the Cagematch at IO predates American Idol.

I'm just sayin'...

[Erdaron]

I meant the recent introduction of judges as the American Idol parallel.

[EdO]

1) Filling the Seats Wins
the group who brings in the most people usually wins. I get this and I think it works in the theatres favor however there is always an unsettling feeling when the group with the poorer performance walks away victorious. But on the other hand you do give both teams full houses to perform for and that, in and of itself, is a good thing too.


Yeah, but the idea was "who cares"? It was a good idea because it got people bringing in audience. In a way, that was the competition itself. And if you lost, no big deal. It didn't mean you were the lesser improvisers. It just meant the other team brought more people. So the reward was as hollow as the loss. Then everybody drank and had a good time. And the Cagematch went on without a hitch until Sammy fucked it up by fixing one of the teams.

Anyway, the worst defeat in Cagematch history was probably Wildcats. We got ZERO votes. That was hilarious. Although the show was moderately difficult, to stand up onstage and get fucking NOTES in front of everyone after a show like that, from people on our same level of experience, would have been irritating and pointless.

Winning the Cagematch is like winning nothing. Lorne Michaels is not going to be standing by to see who won the fucking Cagematch. If you've had fun, you've won. From my perspective, listening to notes from someone who's not your coach, and does not know your team, in front of a group of strangers is not fun. Call me crazy.

[Biddle]

Okay.

You are crazy, Ed.

You're welcome.

Cheers,
COB

[POPS]

wow. 40 replies and almost 2000 views.

[TommyP]

wow. 40 replies and almost 2000 views.

Not all that impressive, really, when we consider that you've checked the thread 1977 times just yourself.