Heroes

[pinoy3D]

Finally starts again on Monday!!!

[Wendy!]

The highlight of my Monday nights is back!!!!! I can't wait!!

[leo]

I am so excited for this it's surreal, considering I have to wait until tomorrow to watch it on NBC.com.

I haven't geeked out like this since Back to the Future II first came out. I Had keychains, pencil cases, pencil toppers, you name it.

It's good to feel alive again.

[Del Close's Skull]

Not a fan. I think most people only like this show because it's not as bad as Lost.

Nice concept, but badly, badly written.

[ritty]

Nice concept, but badly, badly written.

this applies to your persona more than the show, i think.

[yurwitz]

So sweet to have Heroes on again last night. I loved the Sylar/Peter fight, even if it didn't last too long. I also liked that the messenger that Isaac gave his sketchbook to was wearing a Flash-like outfit under his jacket. And what did Isaac mean when he said he's shown the world how to stop Sylar? That was cool.

For those of you not reading the graphic novels that NBC.com is publishing each week, you're missing out on some good back-stories and other characters, especially some backstory in Linderman. This weeks is about Hiro of the future.

STOP reading this post now if you don't want to know about 'spoilers' in the graphic novels.....





So Linderman is able to heal people (and plants I guess). He knew Mr. Patrelli from Vietnam where he saved his life and totally freaked him out, but later in life they teamed up. Mr. Patrelli seems to not have any powers then, but we found out last night that Mrs. Patrelli does.

There's a Hero named Hana who can control cyberspace (send and intercept emails and data that's being transferred wirelessly). She made a brief appearance in an episode where she convinced the Radioactive guy to go after HRG. There are some novels about her backstory, and how HRG reached out to her before his mind was erased setting her on a mission to take down the company. She is ammassing a large group of people to help in the cause. I assume we'll hear more about this in an upcoming episode.

The newest novel is about Hiro of the future, and it's called String Theory. The Hiro that told Peter to save the cheerleader to save the world was from a future where Sylar succeeded in killing Claire and where Sylar was the bomb. This will probably be covered early in next weeks episode as it seems from the previews that's where we're heading. It will be a nice divergence from the regular story line, but I hope it doesn't happen too often.

[Chip]

I signed up at primatechpaper.com and got on a mailing list that "Hana" sends out. I haven't really been keeping up with it lately, but she keeps talking about trying to keep Linderman from hacking the voting machines to get Petrelli into office. So that's what Hana's up to.

As for last night's episode, perhaps I'm confused, but Mohinder had a chance to kill Sylar but didn't? During the fight, Mohinder crashed that thing into Sylar, knocking him out. The next thing we see of that scene is Sylar waking up and Mohinder and Peter are gone. Why didn't Mohinder kill Sylar when he was unconscious?


-Chip

[DiMarco]

I was asking the exact same "Why wasn't Sylar killed?" question. He was out cold! Smash his head in!

I have to be honest... the fact that everyone in the show has super powers is beginning to put me off a little.

And the healing thing... there doesn't appear to be any limit to it. Peter could have had that piece of glass embedded in his head for 10,000 years and some future alien could come along and pull it out and he'd be ok again? Bah. Where's the drama in a hero who completely can't be killed? Instead we are subjected to totally fake drama from Mom and Bro about how sad it is that Peter is dead, when EVERYONE watching knows he isn't. I just kept looking at the clock in boredom wondering how long that scene was going to go on before he was not dead again.

Maybe I was expecting too much, and was therefore easily disappointed; but that will happen when you pull a show for 7 weeks in the middle of the season.

Of course I'm still going to watch next week.

[yurwitz]

I was bothered by those two issues too -

You can kill Peter or Claire by destroying the brain. The audience knew Peter would be okay, so it was a little painful/boring waiting for that to happen. I'm trying to view that whole scene as character developement. Trying.

As for not killing Sylar while he was knocked out, I agree that's a little bothersome. To quote Usual Suspects, "How do you shoot the Devil in the back? What if you miss?" After unsuccessfully trying to kill Sylar and going through the torture that he went through, I can't totally blame him for hightailing it out of there as quickly as possible fearing that doing anything, even trying to kill him, might awaken Sylar again. I wouldn't have blamed him for leaving Peter and the computer behind. Of course, what kind of "hero" would that make him?

[Wendy!]

Even though those things already pointed out bothered me a tiny bit, I think the episode was everything it needed to be. I haven't been keeping up with the graphic novels, but they answered a lot of questions in the first few minutes of the show so I took it ok when they dragged out the Peter death a bit.

I am also super excited as to what Isaac meant when he told Sylar that he had taught the world how to get rid of him.

I'm just a bit nervous about what the future of the show holds, but I'll enjoy every minute in the meantime! And now I'm going to read those graphic novels 'cause I'm a dork.

And as for you sir:
"Not a fan. I think most people only like this show because it's not as bad as Lost.
Nice concept, but badly, badly written."

Touche!

[Chip]

I imagine the comic book he sent off to print has the "how to defeat Sylar" recipe. Or maybe his sketchbook, but I think probably the Hiro comic he sent off.

-Chip

[Cameron Goldapp]

So it's obvious that Isaac's old apartment in the future is full of Sylars complete fortunetelling roadmap of exactly how everything will play out; but my main question is whether or not Isaac (now Sylar's) power of prediction is the innevitible future; or just a possible future? This is a huge problem for me because if it's the innevitible future, then why try to save NYC from the bomb in the first place? If it's only the possible future, then what the hell kind of power is that? That's a bullshit super power; even I can predict what might happen.

And I predict that the season might end without any type of decent resolution; just to keep people on edge for next season. Which annoys the hell out of me. Please Heroes; finish this story completely; and then next season tell a NEW story with some of the same characters. This is what people really want. Do this, and people will tune in next season because it's a GOOD SHOW; not because they want to finallly find out if NYC is going to blow up or not.

[pinoy3D]

OFF Topic:
I don't know if any of you have seen footage of any type of AIR GUITAR competition, but the bike messenger looks like a world champion air guitar playing guy. Whenever he competes he always wears a Hello Kitty backpack.

[megank77]

The new epsode was SO anticlimactic! Make us wait all that time just to reinforce things we already knew. Except the Linderman healing-power... that's new.

I think Linderman took Micah either to hack into the voting software to rig the election for Petrelli, OR to put Mohinder's computer back together so he can have access to the new, more detailed list.

I noticed the cris-crossing strings at the art studio when Hiro goes into the future, with pictures of everyone. I bet he keeps going back and forth through time like he did when he tried to save Charlie the waitress.

I'm bored with the Niki/Jessica story line. She's crazy and angry and protective of her son... we get it.

[Outsider Guy]

Yeah, but......

What the heck will they do for Season Two?

(Mark me down as one who thinks not killing Sylar when he was down was just too cliche for words.)

Can't wait for Mama Petrelli to unload. Bet her power's quite tasty--that's why they're keeping it under wraps.

And Viet Nam, huh?

Government experiements, anyone?

[Stephen K]

Please Heroes; finish this story completely; and then next season tell a NEW story with some of the same characters.


http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=1&id=40354

Tim Kring, creator of NBC's hit series Heroes, told SCI FI Wire that the upcoming second season will constitute a new volume in the multi-volume series, with new characters and an entirely new storyline. "If you remember, the opening of the pilot pronounced the episode as the beginning of Volume One," Kring said in an interview. "Volume One comes to a conclusion at the end of episode 23, and Volume Two starts with the opening of season two. And Volume Two is a different story."

Kring added: "We could have new people and new storylines and new ideas and new threats and new bad guys and new heroes. So I would prepare the audience for that idea, that it's not just a continuing serialized storyline about only these people. It's a little more the 24 model than the Lost model."

The first season of Heroes is exploring what happens when a disparate group of ordinary people discover they have extraordinary abilities and attempt to save New York from disaster.

"Heroes needs to evolve, and if we are positing an idea that this is happening all over the world to many, many people, then we get to see some of those people and see how their story fits in."

[sammy]

Tonight's episode:

Thrown five years in the future, Hiro (Golden Globe nominee Masi Oka) and Ando (James Kyson Lee) discover that people with extraordinary abilities are not only widely known about -- after the destruction of New York City and the deaths of millions -- but are being registered, imprisoned, hunted and even killed as "terrorists." As the President takes his first step towards a "final solution," the pair get swept up in what could be the "Heroes" final battle and encounter a range of new and darkly familiar faces. If they survive the experience, can they still get back to the present and save the world?

Days of Future Past anyone?

[Outsider Guy]

Oh sweet and crispy Heroes goodness, come to me!

[yurwitz]

Yeah Sylar! That was a sweet move. I wish we could have seen more Hero-fight though.

Is the little girl from the previews the same one that Parkman saved early in the season?

[Outsider Guy]

Nice bit of writing in that when Future Hiro asks Bennet to release certain hidden people to him, the name "Molly [whatever]" flies by in the list--and we hear it again in the promo for next week.

Okay, so this ep smacked of X-Men, minus the Sentinels. Still pretty cool.

Nice scar, Pete. How come Claire's regen didn't heal that one?

[Wendy!]

I wanted more fight!!!! I really wanted to see Sylar and Pete battle it out more, other than that. This show rocks! I'm stoked, and I like the way they're introducing the new heroes. Also, I think D.L. is going to be a big hero come next season. I'm also more comfortable watching the show knowing that they're going to wrap up this storyline and start fresh, even though I've gotten way attached to these heroes.

Ah, thank you Heroes for making me love Mondays....

[Wendy!]

Nice scar, Pete. How come Claire's regen didn't heal that one?

Yeah, I wondered that too! Weird, I guess we'll find out!

[Daddy]

Yeah, I wondered that too! Weird, I guess we'll find out!

We don't find out. The future is saved.

But I bet it's a limitation to his power that he can only do one power-thing at a time. He can do everything, just not at once.

Also, wouldn't be shocked if he kept the scar intentionally in an emo, 'i will carry this weight forever' sort of way.

[Outsider Guy]

Also, wouldn't be shocked if he kept the scar intentionally in an emo, 'i will carry this weight forever' sort of way.

That, I like. Knowing he was the exploding man, he's wearing his guilt openly. Nice. Yeah.

[Cameron Goldapp]

My favorite part of this episode was when Ando and Hiro/2 were about to be captures and Petrelli just busts in on the scene freezing, invisibling, and force moving shit all over the place. The fact that Peter is such a badass in the future is so awesome. And yes, that is the same little girl that Parkman saved earlier. One of her parents had been killed by Sylar.

[pinoy3D]

What was up with Parkman? When did he get so evil all of a sudden? Did he know that it's Nathan was really Sylar?

[aneg]

i love the hell out of this show but i have absolutely no idea what is going on half of the time.

[yurwitz]

My guess was that the scar happened while the Haitian was around so he couldn't fully heal.

My predictions:

1) Hiro will get to stab Sylar, but that won't be what truly kills Sylar. The girl will get to do that herself, or we'll get to see the Peter vs. Sylar battle they teased us with last night.

2) Ando will still die (That will drive Hiro to the bad-ass level we like in the future version)

3) We'll get to see Mamma Patrelli's powers, and they will be kick-ass

4) Peter will still explode, but Nathan will fly him away in the nick of time to save NYC. Somehow Claire will convince him to do it. Nathan will die in the process.

[berzac]

Your forgetting that they both have claires power, so it's a wash. It would be like the fight in Matrix Revolutions. Impressive to watch, but no really weight to it.

[hixx]

No wait, Sylar doesn't have Claire's power yet, he never bled her head right?

I love this show, but I'm with Aneg, I have no idea what's going on.

But I'm going to cut Peter Petrelli's hair. That's my special power.

Haircutting. Emo haircutting.

Hixx

[berzac]

No wait, Sylar doesn't have Claire's power yet, he never bled her head right?

I love this show, but I'm with Aneg, I have no idea what's going on.

But I'm going to cut Peter Petrelli's hair. That's my special power.

Haircutting. Emo haircutting.

Hixx
In the fight last night, the fight in the future, he did. He killed claire in the Presidents office.
Pushing nerd glasses nerdly up nose.

[hixx]

oh oh oh oh oh oh OH.

Okay, got it. Thank you.

I've said it before and goldang I'm sure I'll say it again: but I get really confused by time travel. it's my thing.

Hixx

[pinoy3D]

I really want to see what happened during those five years. I want see how Nikki and Peter got together, how Parkman became a badguy, what happened to Clair, how Hiro transformed into that killer bad ass.

[yurwitz]

How Nikki and Peter met is being played out in the online comics. Part 1 of 2 was released this week, so it will finish up next week. It revolves around the jail-break mentioned in last night's episode. Hiro and Peter were breaking out a bunch of captured heroes. Nikki was one of them.

[Outsider Guy]

I really want to see what happened during those five years. I want see how Nikki and Peter got together, how Parkman became a badguy, what happened to Clair, how Hiro transformed into that killer bad ass.

I think Parkman's badguy attitude is to help cover for the fact that he's in it to Bennet. Seems Bennet helped to relocate wife & kid, who must be "special" too. I think he needs to toe the company line so no one goes hunting for the family.

Someone made mention of the fact that Sylar hadn't sliced open Claire's noggin. If he's like Peter, he doesn't have to go that far. I think he just likes to. Peter got Claire's power when he came in contact with her. Could it be the same with Sylar?

As for Ando--maybe if Hiro can change the future, Ando lives and Hiro doesn't become all Dark Knightish.

Have I mentioned that I love this show? I do. Carnally.

[berzac]

I think Parkman's badguy attitude is to help cover for the fact that he's in it to Bennet. Seems Bennet helped to relocate wife & kid, who must be "special" too. I think he needs to toe the company line so no one goes hunting for the family.

Someone made mention of the fact that Sylar hadn't sliced open Claire's noggin. If he's like Peter, he doesn't have to go that far. I think he just likes to. Peter got Claire's power when he came in contact with her. Could it be the same with Sylar?

As for Ando--maybe if Hiro can change the future, Ando lives and Hiro doesn't become all Dark Knightish.

Have I mentioned that I love this show? I do. Carnally.
Was I the only one who saw her have blood drip down her head, the calling card that Sylar just ate yo brain? Is that how you kill Clarie? Think about it.

[ritty]

I saw that as well, Chris but why wouldn't Claire's powers keep her brains holder intact, healing itself as Sylar is cutting? I mean, that's what happened when he tried it on Peter Petrelli and Claire is who Peter got his ability to do that from.

signed,
Confused in Chicago

[Gass]

Remember, if something happens to her brain, she is technically dead (remember the wood in her head). So, no brain, no powers!

[Outsider Guy]

But kids, I'm talking about back in "normal" time, not future time. Yes, in the future Sylar slices open Claire and gets her power. But that's five years off.

Back in our time, he hasn't killed her. Thus, no Claire power. Thus, if Hiro can get to Sylar before Sylar gets to her (save the cheerleader....again), Sylar won't have Claire's power and Hiro can ostensibly shiv him with the sword.

But I still say Mohinder should have taken the 30 seconds to stave in Sylar's head when he had the chance.

[berzac]

But kids, I'm talking about back in "normal" time, not future time. Yes, in the future Sylar slices open Claire and gets her power. But that's five years off.

Back in our time, he hasn't killed her. Thus, no Claire power. Thus, if Hiro can get to Sylar before Sylar gets to her (save the cheerleader....again), Sylar won't have Claire's power and Hiro can ostensibly shiv him with the sword.

But I still say Mohinder should have taken the 30 seconds to stave in Sylar's head when he had the chance.
Mr. Outsider, I think you are confused. Time Travel does that. I was saying the fight between Peter and Sylar in the future would be a wash because they both have claires powers.

In the present, Sylar does not have claires powers. If he did, he would be unstopable. Hence the save the cheerleader, save the world. Sylar can be killed now.

My hope is that Hiro freezes time and cuts his head off. I don't know why he hasn't thought of that.

[Carr]

But I think the problem is going to become while, yes, they should kill Sylar, he is not the one who causes the explosion. It's Peter P. And he has Claire-power. They are going to be soooo busy killing Sylar, that they won't catch it until ole Pete up and explodes.

Future Hiro doesn't get this because everyone thinks Sylar blew it up in the future but in the last ep. it is clearly stated that was a big cover up and he did not.


Erin

[Cameron Goldapp]

Here's the real plot problem. The whole reason for save the cheerleader, save the world" was so that in that future Sylar wouldn't have killed Claire and got her power to regen. BUT, in the future they showed us in the last episode, where the cheerleader and the world had not been saved, Sylar HADN'T kill Claire (at least not until later in the episode). So where the hell is the future where the cheerleader didn't get saved in the lockeroom? This makes no sense.

[yurwitz]

The Hiro that told Peter to Save the Cheerleader was from a world where Claire was killed by Sylar and Sylar had his power to regenerate before the bomb exploded.

When that was changed, there was a ripple through time, only Hiro of the future wasn't affected so he didn't know that part had changed. When he sees Bennett, he says he just learned that she is alive. That is a little weird that this Hiro of the future didn't know that. It's sort of like the movie Millenium. Rifts, paradoxes and alternate dimensions....I love time-travel theories!

[Dave Ries]

When he sees Bennett, he says he just learned that she is alive. That is a little weird that this Hiro of the future didn't know that...

However! In the future, Bennett had Claire hiding in Texas until he found out that others knew that she was alive. So...Hiro finding out in the future that old Hiro saved the cheerleader meant that when time changed, Bennett had Claire in hiding for at least 5 years. Ya dig?

It was touched on the Claire hadn't moved back to Midland, Texas until Bennett's wife left him.

[Monahan]

So where the hell is the future where the cheerleader didn't get saved in the lockeroom? This makes no sense.

It makes total sense.

The future where Claire didn't get saved in the lockeroom does not exist anymore because she was saved. The future we saw is the track that we are currently on, not some alternate dimension. "Save the cheerleader, save the world" didn't work. Hiro of The Future thought that he had simply failed to save the cheerleader, but it turns out, he succeeded, it just wasn't the turning point he thought it was.

That is a little weird that this Hiro of the future didn't know that.

Agreed. If Hiro of The Now knows that Claire has been saved, then Hiro of The Future should know it, as well. But that doesn't make for as dramatic a reveal.

However! In the future, Bennett had Claire hiding in Texas until he found out that others knew that she was alive. So...Hiro finding out in the future that old Hiro saved the cheerleader meant that when time changed, Bennett had Claire in hiding for at least 5 years. Ya dig?

Yes, he had Claire in hiding for 5 years. The only explanation for Hiro of The Future not knowing Claire was saved is if, in the intervening time between Hiro of The Now and Hiro of The Future, Hiro of the In-Between received mis-information leading him to believe that he was wrong.

The major flaw in all this is that it has to be a dimensional shift in addition to the time shift, otherwise Hiro of the Future would remember visiting himself when he was Hiro of the Now, so he'd know everything that was about to go down. And once you start shifting dimensions you really fuck up your cause-effect relationships, because each cause might have several different effects, each having their own dimension/timeline. Yucky and complicated.

Can't wait for tonight!

[Hicks]

When Sylar visited his mom tonight did anyone else want to suddenly break out in "Suddenly Sylar is standing beside me. Stealing your powers. He's totally insane. Suddenly Sylar. He's gonna chop off your head and pullout your brain. SUDDENLY SYLAR IS STANDING BEFORE ME!

[Outsider Guy]

Just a thought:

What if "save the cheerleader, save the world" didn't only apply to the night at the homecoming?

We're assuming it does because that's how it was played up--but if five years in the future Sylar DOES kill Claire as we saw, there goes the world, potentially.

Or if in the now, Claire gets offed before Pete blows up. There goes the world, potentially.

When, exactly, does "save the cheerleader" apply? No one's really said.

[yurwitz]

"Save the Cheerleader, Save the world" comes from Hiro. From the episode and comic book, his thought is only that he could save the world if Sylar is killed. Sylar can only be killed if he can't regenerate, which is only if he doesn't get Claire's powers. The only modern-day person who has the ability to save her, is Peter. Hiro decided to jump in time to tell Peter to save her.

My nagging question is about Peter's powers. He absorbs powers, so he should have Parkman's mind reading, but we haven't seen that in use since they were in the interogation together. It seems like when he absorbs a power, he can't control it right off the bat, but then has to focus on the power to bring it back. So did he forget about that power? He should have super-hearing too, but he was "killed" immediately after being with Sylar, so never was out of control with that power (or any of the countless other powers Sylar has). If he doesn't know he has that power, does it not just show up from time to time? The mind-reading and super hearing could have really come in useful when he and Claire saw Nathan talking with the bad guy.

By the way, I love that this is so complicated.

[Outsider Guy]

"Save the Cheerleader, Save the world" comes from Hiro. From the episode and comic book, his thought is only that he could save the world if Sylar is killed. Sylar can only be killed if he can't regenerate, which is only if he doesn't get Claire's powers. The only modern-day person who has the ability to save her, is Peter. Hiro decided to jump in time to tell Peter to save her.

Right. But the question of when, exactly, the cheerleader needs saving is really--or could really be--up in the air. Maybe saving the cheerleader is sending her to Paris. Or maybe it's going to happen in NYC. Or maybe homecoming was in fact the time to save the cheerleader.

He should have super-hearing too, but he was "killed" immediately after being with Sylar, so never was out of control with that power (or any of the countless other powers Sylar has). If he doesn't know he has that power, does it not just show up from time to time?

I thought it was a little pat that Sylar's super-hearing really only came into play in this ep when Hiro and Ando were hiding. Didn't he hear them come in? Hear their whispers in the other room? Or does he have to "tune in"?

Dang but this show is fun to pick apart!

[yurwitz]

By the way, I absolutely love that the "Walker Device" that Parman/Ted/Bennett are heading to New York to destroy is actually Molly Walker, the little girl that Parkman saved at the beginning of the season. Talk about a great conflict.

In the String Theory episode, the three names that Hiro rattles off to Bennett as people that he brought to Bennett to save are DH (or whatever the guy's name is who can walk through walls), Candace, and Molly Walker. Take that how you want for how the final two episodes will play out.

So in this alternate future, Sylar admitted that he had met Candace and taken her power to make people see things. He grabbed Peter through the wall which leads us to believe that he got DH's power to go through walls. I doubt he has Molly's powers or he would have hunted down Claire. 2 out of the 3 that were put into hiding doesn't play out well for Bennett's system. This is all in the alternate reality anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

[yurwitz]

Another great episode, leading perfectly up to what should be a kick-ass finale. I'm actually a little pissed at how much they gave away in the previews for next week though.

[Daddy]

I'm actually a little pissed at how much they gave away in the previews for next week though.

They've been doing this ALL SEASON. Boo, NBC.

[Dave Ries]

He absorbs powers, so he should have Parkman's mind reading, but we haven't seen that in use since they were in the interogation together.
Looks like NBC answered your prayers this week.

I think it's cool that the powers only seem to work for Peter in situations when they're really needed. It's more of a natural instinct kind of thing.

I'm excited about the ending of this volume.

[Chip]

Still waiting for Peter's mom's power...

Still waiting for Sylar to get the hologram-girl's power so he can transform into Nathan...

Also, can someone clarify for me what happened with Jessica/Nikki last night? Linderman tried to pay off Jessica to kill DL, right? Then Jessica let Nikki take over, or did Nikki take over, fighting Jessica down? I was really confused. Thanks!

-Chip

[pinoy3D]

Favorite parts of the episode was Hiro calling Nathan a villain and any time I heard George Takei speak.

Also, can someone clarify for me what happened with Jessica/Nikki last night? Linderman tried to pay off Jessica to kill DL, right? Then Jessica let Nikki take over, or did Nikki take over, fighting Jessica down? I was really confused. Thanks!

-Chip

Jessica let Nikki take over because she knew that Nikki would resist any temptation to take money over Mika. Jessica wasn't a villain, I think she was just angry.

[Outsider Guy]

I kept waiting for Linderman to heal and get up--which may still happen. But at least we finally got to see DH do something cool with his power.

Pretty good episode, with some quibbles, of course.

--Ted, dude...if you're suspended from the ceiling in an overturned truck and you're in chains, just use your power to melt the suckers and get down.

--Hiro...good job learning killer weapon skills in the span of just a few hours. Your dad's a damn fine teacher, apparently. (I kept waiting to find out that one of them had stopped outside time or some such.)

--And juuuuust a little too pat that Papa Nakamura would be in the place chosen out of the phone book in the right city when the sword gets broken.


Otherwise.....can't freakin' wait for next weeeeeeeek!

[Cameron Goldapp]

Keep in mind however that we don't know what Papa Nakamura's power is yet. He said he's been keeping an eye on Hiro all along, so he probably knew where they were going before they got there. Although, my guess is that he has the superpower to set a course for a distant star system and engage. Or possibly the superpower to completely hide his homosexuality for 60 years. I mean, I never would have guessed it.

[Outsider Guy]

tonight's The Night!!!

[schaefe]

GAH!

Great....just great. I spilled my coffee all over the place...

Perfect.

[Outsider Guy]

Either you're not all awake yet, or you're just as sad as I am at how badly this episode sucked.

Cheap plot devices....(Peter: How is this happening? Charlie: It doesn't matter.) Crap messages....(All you need is love, Peter) Illogical happenstance... (So Sylar can stop three bullets fired at him before they hit, but a chubby guy with a sword can cross 15 feet of open ground and stuff said sword into his gut before he can react?)

Crap, crap, and more crap. Big flamin' bags of it.

Heroes, you have let me down.

[ritty]

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled with the finale either. I think it was more a product of too much hype though. They built it up to be such a huge deal. I'm still annoyed that they never showed us Mama Petrelli's power. And I hated the Jessica/Nikki "you had it in you all along" crapfest, too. And they had Shaft...effing Shaft!...turn into John Lennon? Then, even though Peter and Claire can't get out of town because of all the traffic and congestion of NYC, later Peter can just lie there in the middle of a deserted street while he goes on his little vision quest? His ass would have been run over by a cab in 45 seconds. Boo.

[illades]

That was the lamest finale to an otherwise good show.

I feel really cheated. I put up with a certain amount of cheese and melodrama over the course of the season because the story was interesting and quirky enought that I was willing to suspend disbelief on things that ordinarily I'd be a prick about. Now I feel stupid for having done so.

I'll be hard pressed to watch next season.

Every aspect of the story was sold out in the end and nothing really rang true. The whole thing crumbled and the writers took the coward's way out of everything they had set up for themselves.

Fuck Heroes. That was boring.

[Chip]

Did anyone actually die in the finale?

DL gets shot, manages to hang on through the end of the season.

Parkman takes multiple bullets, hauled off in ambulance.

Sylar, stabbed with a sword. Crawls off to sewer, presumably where he will not die.

Oh, well I guess Nathan died. OK, that's one. We know Peter can survive his own blast.


Also, tell me why Claire can't shoot Peter? Wouldn't that stop the bomb without letting Nathan die? Plus, who cares if you shoot him. Just pull the bullet out and he'll be fine. So, Nathan's death was needless.

Bah, poop on that finale!

-Chip

[Arnie]

And Nathan could easily not be dead. If he... say... dropped Peter and flew off before the explosion.

This show really improved over the season, but, in the end, didn't really add up to much of anything.

"No... Niki.... DL is hurt... your superstrength would be so much more useful helping someone that was shot than fighting Sylar."

Oh well. At least it wasn't as boring as 24 has been.

[franks]

As far as nikki not helping out with her super strength i was ok with/

i would have liked them to show that peter got the super strength power a little more, also a longer fight would have been cool too.

why couldn't peter just fly away by himself?

also if their parents have always known about their abilities why the hell didn't they tell them before. giving someone five weeks to prepare to save the world doesn't seem like much.

i wasn't thrilled with the ending, although all leading up to it was pretty bad ass.

[Admin]

This show was never anything more than a quirky soap opera. They could have aired it during the daytime, and nobody would have ever noticed.

[Telfer]

Told you so.

[Outsider Guy]

I have to admit I rolled on over to aint it cool and read some of the message boards there. People positing some thoughts on the very questions we're asking. To wit:

Why couldn't Pete fly away? Didn't want to. He has to will the powers into play. He didn't have "the heart," they say. May also have been a little too consumed with being about to blow up.

Sylar & the sword. Here's an interesting theory. Knowing the possibilities of the future (through Isaac's power) he elects to get stabbed, knowing he may not die. Someone suggested that the flash that goes through his eyes shows that somehow...if you freeze-frame it.

Mama P. This wasn't from AICN, but from my own "What was that?" moment last night. There's a scene where she's telling Nathan they have to go. If you taped it, go look. Look at the eyes. They ain't normal. I think she has the power of uber-persuasion. A friend says it was alluded to in another ep with some reference about not needing ID. ("These are not the droids you seek" redux.)

Nathan...well, if you want his sacrifice to be in vain, then yeah, he can be alive. Fly up, leave Pete to free fall or fly on his own, get the hell out of Dodge.

Other suggestion: Mama P or Charlie are the one "worse than the boogey man." After all, Charlie could see the not there Peter, right?

Mind you, this doesn't keep the ep from blowing goats. It just puts some spin on the stuff that sucked.

[Outsider Guy]

also if their parents have always known about their abilities why the hell didn't they tell them before. giving someone five weeks to prepare to save the world doesn't seem like much.

Mama P wanted the city to blow up--that's her version of "saving it," just like Linderman. She was instrumental in jockeying everyone into place. She's the one who said "You can't stop it."

So that's why she didn't let on. I imagine Daddy Petrelli wanted to change course, and that's why he died. Linderman said something about him being weak.

I think too much about this shit.

[Rance Rizzutto]

Also...if Peter couldn't control Ted's power...and exploded...and survived...wouldn't he still not be able to control Ted's power?

[ritty]

Another theory I heard from a co-worker about the Syler death is that Syler couldn't stop Hiro because his hands were already busy. He has to use his hands to move stuff around and one was choking Peter and the other was freezing Parkman's bullets. Thus, he was exposed to the blade.

[yurwitz]

so this finale was a little cheesy, but I didn't mind. It pretty much went right as I thought it would (including my prediction a few weeks ago that Nathan would fly Peter off just before he explodes back on page 3ish of this thread (now I'm done patting myself of the back)).

There were a lot of, "they could have done _____" moments, but I didn't mind the way it went down. Here's a couple thoughts to add:

Can peter only use one power at a time? I don't recall ever seeing him use more than one. If that's the case, than when he starts blowing up, he can't fly away or do anything else.

I'm still a little confused about the ending. Unlike others on this board, I got the impression that Sylar is dead. The blood trail to the sewer was just left over blood washing away after the coroner took him away, not where he escaped. If he's not dead, he'll pop at the coroner's not in the sewer.

[franks]

I'm still a little confused about the ending. Unlike others on this board, I got the impression that Sylar is dead. The blood trail to the sewer was just left over blood washing away after the coroner took him away, not where he escaped. If he's not dead, he'll pop at the coroner's not in the sewer.


but, at the end of the shot they showed a cockroach (sp?) coming up from the sewer cap which brings back Mohinder's monologue from the 5th or 6th episode (i think) about how they can survive almost anything. which i'm taking as symbolism for skylars missing body.


also, did parkman die? wasn't sure, he wasn't in a body bag or anything.

[pinoy3D]

The finale just felt rushed. It might have been better if it were a super-sized or even a 2 hour season finale. I was expecting a big special powers showdown between Sylar and Peter. That didn't happen. There were some really great things about the episode, though. It was cool to finally see all the characters together. And there is another bad guy that may be even worse than Sylar, the one that Molly doesn't want to track because he looks back at her.

(So Sylar can stop three bullets fired at him before they hit, but a chubby guy with a sword can cross 15 feet of open ground and stuff said sword into his gut before he can react?)

Remember, he was able to teleport himself to Ando, then to Japan before Sylar was able to decapitate Ando. So Hiro is a lot faster, and maybe even a lot more powerful, than Sylar is.

[Arnie]

If they had been smart, they would have saved the revelation that Peter is the bomb and not Sylar until this last episode. It's a great bombshell revelation and would have given this finale a desperately needed twist. And then everyone should have had to work together to destroy Peter.

As it is, the final battle and the fact that everyone finally comes together in New York had a kind of "so what" quality to it. They clearly backed themselves into a corner with the all-these-puzzle-pieces-are-going-to-fit-together idea.

And Peter should be killed off anyway. He has too many powers and it makes no sense when he can use them. And it would have given the message that the show is bigger than these specific characters (something Kring has been saying in interviews, but clearly isn't true... he can't even bring himself to kill off his bad guy). On that note, they probably should have killed off Hiro too.

Now, I must prepare myself for the inevitable LOST finale disappointment.

[Stephen K]

I'm still a little confused about the ending. Unlike others on this board, I got the impression that Sylar is dead. The blood trail to the sewer was just left over blood washing away after the coroner took him away, not where he escaped. If he's not dead, he'll pop at the coroner's not in the sewer.

Maybe he was dragged into the sewer.

[sammy]

Now, I must prepare myself for the inevitable LOST finale disappointment.

Hush you.

Just hush.

[sammy]

Sylar is alive, but hopefully they'll keep him off the beaten path next season. Or, betcha 100 antique CINbucks, next year's baddie kills Sylar to show just how much of a baddie he is.

Basically, the writers promised a superpower fightsravaganza but delivered a lame youtube slapfight with sub-Doctor Who SFX.

I can only imagine the fight scenarios that could have been...

[Rance Rizzutto]

Maybe he was dragged into the sewer.

oooOOOOOooo! What if the bad guy Molly is afraid of took sylar?

That would be fun.

[Bryan Cohen]

oooOOOOOooo! What if the bad guy Molly is afraid of took sylar?

That would be fun.

That's my thought. In episode 1 Mohinder talks about the Cockroach being the pinnacle of evolution (even being able to withstand a nuclear blast). I feel like Sylar is dead or at least nearly dead, and the cockroach on the manhole cover shows the next step in evolution is here (the baddie that Molly is referring to).

I've watched the last ten minutes twice now. The first time I was disappointed, the second time not so much. Heroes has never been about this super special effect driven stuff. The coolest stuff has been when Ted nuked Claire's house and when Sylar and Peter fight in the future. The Heroes writers shouldn't have built it up to be something amazing because they just did what they've done all season. They've kept the action to a minimum and they've focused on the story and the character development.

Hiro stabbing Sylar was a bit of a stretch. I've thought about some justification for it. The first time Hiro tried to kill Sylar, he couldn't do it, so it's possible that Sylar thought Hiro wouldn't be able to do it once again. It's obvious it would be extreme cockiness on Sylar's part to let this happen, but he seemed to be pretty happy that Peter was about to explode at that point. Plus, he'd already had his ass kicked by Nikki, and then Peter with Nikki strength, so he probably wasn't at tip-top awareness. My second thought is that Sylar, having seen Isaac's comic book, was almost stupefied for a second that the future was actually coming true as Isaac had drawn it.

Should they have done the Hiro stabbing better? Yes. But, I feel like those two above points may have been what the writers were going for.

And...I think that Parkman's dead, but I feel like most of those "who is dead" questions will be answered when we see which actors have signed on for next season :).

Heroes Nerd OUT!

[Monahan]

The only thing I can think is that Sylar saw that he had to piss off Peter in order to get him to explode. Also, based on the flashes in his eyes, he saw that Hiro was going to stab him. I think it was Sylar giving into what he thought was his destiny-- he was going to be responsible for the nuclear explosion that killed millions. He was gonna either die from a Hiro stab wound or from a nuclear explosion, so he let Hiro stab him and then jettisoned him off so that Hiro couldn't teleport Peter somewhere safer. It was Nathan returning and sacrificing himself that changed the future.

Also, if Mamma Petrelli's power is that of super-suggestion, then she's real shitty at it. She couldn't get a single person to go along with what she wanted in the end.

And, Arnie, I couldn't agree more. Had the writers prepared the season outline a little better and with an eye for making this last episode huge, they would've probably played tighter to the vest with the exploding guy being Peter.

[sammy]

Well, a "kinda spoiler" for season 2 since, well, they'll probably advertise it come next fall.








Nathan Petrelli is alive.


So. Yay for the idea that Nathan was smart enough to fling Peter away from himself before Peter went kablooey. Boo in that, basically, there was no sacrifice by Nathan and pretty much NO ONE died in the finale.

And Peter is still a wishy washy pussy.

[katewrath]

Had the writers prepared the season outline a little better and with an eye for making this last episode huge, they would've probably played tighter to the vest with the exploding guy being Peter.

I think the writers' had a very specific season outline, written at least in part to accomodate a specific plan for year two, and this was the way they always intended it to play out. I'm not saying that's a good thing -- I think Heroes represents the absolutely barest minimum of work you could put into this kind of show and get people to watch it. But I'm pretty sure this was the finale -- and the season -- they planned from the start. (Barring, of course, the possibility of an October cancellation.)

It's all about embracing your destiny, the one you want, the one you dread, the one you wish wasn't yours, etc. (Again, am I a fan of this approach? No.) But look at the last three episodes, and tell me that every single one of the main cast ISN'T making the decision to be who they were "born" to be.

Personally, I think that's a stupid season arc. I much prefer the (wait for it....) Veronica Mars approach, with set backs and minor triumphs and self-destructive sacrifices. For that matter, I have no specific hope for any of the heroes, and although I fear they might die, I have no sense of what that would signify. (By contrast, the fluffy light Ugly Betty rang me like a bell by taking away a minor character who was loved by characters I'm rooting for.)

A fascinating lesson in the importance of establishing stakes and giving your audience a reason to care about them.

[Admin]

I was hoping that Mohinder would die, so that he could spare us the embarrassment of watching him try to act next season.

[Chip]

I was hoping that Mohinder would die, so that he could spare us the embarrassment of watching him try to act next season.

I'd settle for killing his ability to monologize. Wait, that has been dead from the start. Just make him mute.

-Chip

[Telfer]

http://www.ocelopotamus.com/234_lol-heroes/

[pinoy3D]

So, what did you all think of the season 2 premier?

[megank77]

What the crap, man? How did Peter get in that box thing? What powers do George Takei and Mrs. Petrelli have? I have so many questions.:confused:

[Steev]

I had hoped they'd send Mohinder to acting school between seasons, but they didn't.

[Walleye]

They did. He just thought he got all he needed from Overt Brooding 101.

[hixx]

I was really hoping our new latino twins were the wonder twins, but I don't think they are.

She's a scanner.

Hixx

[franks]

what's a scanner?

is that something i missed from the first season?

[Hendo]

I think the male twin needs to be near the female twin to prevent her from "going off." When they were seperated, she killed that whole truck full of folks. And they made a big deal about not being seperated even within the truck.

[Arnie]

Pretty underwhelming from start to finish.

[Steev]

I think the male twin needs to be near the female twin to prevent her from "going off." When they were seperated, she killed that whole truck full of folks. And they made a big deal about not being seperated even within the truck.

Hmmm. Interesting clues, but I'm going to have to disagree.

[hixx]

Nah, I was just referencing the MOVIE scanners, cause that one guy made that other guy's head blow up.

Boytwin also mentioned something to her about "slowing down" at first I thought maybe she was bionicy and could run really fast. But...even a fast runner wouldn't make your eyes bleed huh?

And really, what is up with Nathan's face in the mirror...anyone? Anyone?

Hixx

[Monahan]

And really, what is up with Nathan's face in the mirror...anyone? Anyone?

I thought that the reflection was a burnt & charred Peter looking back at him. Basically he's getting sauced cause he feels responsible for Peter's death. It's the kind of overt telegraphing that annoys me about this show.

[JPanic]

Pretty underwhelming from start to finish.

That's exactly what I thought.

This is actually the first Heroes episode I've ever watched, though. I'm trying to get into it because a lot of people have raved about it, and I'm a huge fan of Lost so I enjoy these serial-type shows where mysteries unravel as you go.

But this seemed kinda ho-hum - was this just a bad point to get into the show, or was this episode par for the course?

[Steev]

Par for the course. The first few episodes are intriguing. Then you start to realize you're watching nothing more than a sci-fi daytime soap opera. The acting is soap opera quality, the writing is soap opera quality... it just has a primetime gloss on it.

[Daddy]

Par for the course. The first few episodes are intriguing. Then you start to realize you're watching nothing more than a sci-fi daytime soap opera. The acting is soap opera quality, the writing is soap opera quality... it just has a primetime gloss on it.

Swap every occurrence of "soap opera" with "comic book", and you nailed it. It's light, and it's pulpy, and it works well enough until you have fanboys scrutinizing every frame.

[Arnie]

My opinion of the first season was that it started off pretty crappy, but steadily got better. By the end of the Save The Cheerleader section of the season, I thought there were some episodes that were really quite good. Then I thought the finale was a real mess, which was too bad because the show's charm almost entirely hinges on it's "where is the story going" momentum.

Overall, it's a pretty well crafted and well paced show, and does a good job of not falling into some of the traps, pacing-wise, that LOST falls into. But there's not a lot of depth there really. LOST at it's best really blows it out of the water (but then, how often is LOST at it's best anymore?).

I think the comparisons to soap operas and pulpy comic books are pretty astute. It's too bad it can't rise above being a disposable distraction. But it's still (about half the time) pretty fun.

[Steev]

Swap every occurrence of "soap opera" with "comic book", and you nailed it. It's light, and it's pulpy, and it works well enough until you have fanboys scrutinizing every frame.

Swap every occurrence of "swap" with "don't swap" and you nailed it.

[Telfer]

No comic book is this lameballs. At least comic books this soap-opera like throws in a healthy dash of fight scenes and impossible scenarios. This it weakly powered, barely plotted. The superhero thing is just a hook to hang another boring show on.

Much like Grey's Anatomy only uses medicine as a way of manipulating a plot that mostly revolves around fucking and gossiping, Heroes uses superpowers as a way of making another 24 or CSI ripoff.

[Daddy]

Swap every occurrence of "swap" with "don't swap" and you nailed it.

Swap every occurrence of "don't swap" with "your butt" and you're a doodie.

[schaefe]

Daddy is now my hero. Whoever was my hero before this, is fired.

[Telfer]

Your butt was your hero.

[schaefe]

Zing! Heyo!

[Rance Rizzutto]

Predictions:

-Peter was brainwashed by the Haitian and given the Haitian's necklace as some sort of "sign" for Bennet.
-Hiro is Takezo Kinsei
-The kid who can fly from Claire's new school is the one who killed George Takei
-Peter joines the IRA

[Scol]

For some reason, I never got into comics. I don't know how Heroes stacks up in that area, but I think t.v. has set a gold standard for anything in this genre: Buffy The Vampire Slayer.

Compared to that classic, this show gets a C minus.

Although, I do find it entertaining, when I watch it every three weeks or so.

Hiro must be Kinsei (not the sex report guy). If they don't do some sort of spin on that concept, they're blowing it.

Which would interest the sex report guy.

[Gass]

Daddy is now my hero. Whoever was my hero before this, is fired.

::eD quietly packs his things, kicks at dirt on the ground and leaves, but vowes to return to this town in a company jet one day!::

[Chip]

About to watch episode 2. My prediction, Hiro ends up being Kensei before this season is over, not the British guy.

-Chip

[Chip]

OK, well that didn't take long to answer. :P

[RonK]

And it seems the Alien Black Oil from the X-Files has found a new host :confused:

[yurwitz]

I liked the episode, at least I liked it better than the first one.

One guess - that the british Kensei is the guy who killed Hiro's dad. If he heals like Claire, maybe that makes him virtually immortal. He fits the build of the guy who pushed him off the building, and that would explain how he could walk away from it, and maybe why Hiro's dad was suprised it was him (considering we may find out that the British Kensei is Hiro's great (to the 10th) grandfather or something). I don't think he attacked Mamma Patrelli though. That would be a different one of the old-timers group we haven't met yet.

[Rance Rizzutto]

Random prediction.

English Kinsei is actually Papa Patrelli.

[hixx]

Well what kind of crappy power is that for the poor twins? Man, I'd be so stinkin' bummed if my power

A. Killed everyone
B. Made it so my stupid brother had to be with my ALL THE TIME.

I don't understand her power at all. Hey, I can make people bleed black! Woo hoo!

Flying? Cool. Indestructible? Awesome. Hear people's thoughts? Sweet!

Make people cry black tears, kill people I love and make it so I can never be alone ever?

BOOOO.

Hixx

[yurwitz]

Wow. I can't believe how silent this board has been on Heroes. Almost two weeks since the last reply? Are you just getting bored with the show?

I wasn't particularly impressed with last night, but it was kind of cool that the boogey man was Parkman's dad. I want them to delve into that organization soon, especially show us their powers. Is there a copy of the group picture out there we can check out?

I'm a little frustrated with adding so many new characters, though I can't wait to see me some Veronica Mars action.

I think Sylar might be getting that disease, so it's repressing his powers, well at least his "aquired" powers.

Any thoughts, or am I the only one still interested?

[Chip]

I'm just tired of every single character they introduce having a power. Oh, that guy hitting on Claire? Power. That girl that Micah is staying with? Power.

Sylar coincidentally running into the Hispanic couple? I'll buy that there's a genetic inheritance thing that gives random powers, but the coincidental stuff is starting to get on my nerves.

And yet I still watch. Hmm.

-Chip

[aneg]

friend and i trying to decipher last nights episode: plz assist.

1. sylar kills his first non-hero
1a. hears clock ticking
1b. cockroach appears agin, wtf is this shit.
1c. is still brooding and attractive.

2. micah seems to give powers to people? or, as friend says, micah can fix and manipulate anything, not just machines.
2a. i want thae power wher ei learn things off of tv. OH WAIT, i already have it. its called seeing.

3. peter is not being used correctly, will soon blow up. possibly person killing everyon? possibly has jessica/ ali larter powers and is in ny too?

4. molly sucks and should die two episodes ago. couldn't we just get a computer like in the xmen. a fucking atlas?! i mean... how did she even learn about that power? she was playing, malibu cartographer barbie when she thought about someone she missed and accidentally found them and even still... i mean... how could she ever verify it "this push pin actually is where that person actually is. i must have powers. and oh by the way i'm 9 years old" also, i hate her.

[Chip]

1. sylar kills his first non-hero
1a. hears clock ticking
1b. cockroach appears agin, wtf is this shit.
1c. is still brooding and attractive.

Did he hear the clock ticking? I thought that was just background sound they threw in there, like his theme music, except the sound of a clock instead of music. Similar to the cockroach, I think it's just sort of his new symbol now.

2. micah seems to give powers to people? or, as friend says, micah can fix and manipulate anything, not just machines.
2a. i want thae power wher ei learn things off of tv. OH WAIT, i already have it. its called seeing.

Ahhhh, so THAT's what the extended shot of Micah's hand on the girl's back was about. He gave her the power.

3. peter is not being used correctly, will soon blow up. possibly person killing everyon? possibly has jessica/ ali larter powers and is in ny too?

I thought he was in Ireland. Did he move? I missed a few minutes.

4. molly sucks and should die two episodes ago. couldn't we just get a computer like in the xmen. a fucking atlas?! i mean... how did she even learn about that power? she was playing, malibu cartographer barbie when she thought about someone she missed and accidentally found them and even still... i mean... how could she ever verify it "this push pin actually is where that person actually is. i must have powers. and oh by the way i'm 9 years old" also, i hate her.

I got no problem with Molly. Why do you hate her? Why do you hate cute little girls, Aneg? Judgement!

-Chip

[Scol]

There must be something to this show, since I watch it every three weeks or so. But...

The dialogue is awful. Wooden and expository. Half of what these people say has "In Case You Missed Last Week" written all over it. It serves a purpose-I can follow the story and I'm an infrequent viewer. But I'd prefer confusion to crap writing.

And the son of the Indian doctor guy-terrible, terrible actor.

Yet it has a few compelling characters, and the premise is fun.

Do geeks notice this stuff? They're supposed to be smart.

[franks]

"Ahhhh, so THAT's what the extended shot of Micah's hand on the girl's back was about. He gave her the power."


she had the power before micah. i think she is just realizing it now.
remember earlier that day at work she cut the tomato into a rose.
i think her power is that she retains and applies super fast. she should watch ninja flicks, and then do ninja things. that would be nice.

as far as the coincidences go with sylar, maya and alanjandro i think those have always been there. like when peter got in mohinders cab and parkman finding molly in the closet.

do you think sylar will kill the twins? or do you think he will turn them to evil?

also, i know it looks like bennett in the 8/8 painting but why. he's not a hero, he's not in the picture... why would he die, unless the new flyer is evil, hmmm. also just to refresh, was bennett one of the guys abducting the heroes putting those marks on his neck?

not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread but doesn't the hero symbol resemble half of a double helix a lot?

also, can't wait to go to philly next week. i don't care how bad ass parkmans dad is, if he's chilling in north philly he better watch out.

[Gograh]

Yeah, Bennett was one of the guys kidnapping. I think Parkman recognized him in the first season.

My biggest problem, as a geek, is whenever a new character shows up with a new power, it's not done in a way that hasn't been done before. Like Micah's cousin, that's just the Taskmaster's power used in the exact same way. Or Micah, he's just Cypher from the New Mutants. I know, I know, huge nerd, but if Tim Kring, who wrote this last episode and created the show, is such a giant comic book afficianado, I'd like to see him play with convention rather than slavishly adhere to it.

That being said, I'd like some explanation on how Sylar ended up in Mexico.

Also, anyone notice how badly Veronica Mars stuck out in the preview for, you know, not having that "I'm choking on a mouthful of exposition" delivery everyone else has?

[Chip]

"Ahhhh, so THAT's what the extended shot of Micah's hand on the girl's back was about. He gave her the power."


she had the power before micah. i think she is just realizing it now.
remember earlier that day at work she cut the tomato into a rose.
i think her power is that she retains and applies super fast. she should watch ninja flicks, and then do ninja things. that would be nice.

as far as the coincidences go with sylar, maya and alanjandro i think those have always been there. like when peter got in mohinders cab and parkman finding molly in the closet.

do you think sylar will kill the twins? or do you think he will turn them to evil?

OK, right, I didn't remember the timing on the tomato rose. In that case, what was the extended shot of Micah's hand on her for? Just weird or something specific?

Yeah, I didn't like any of those coincidences either.

I was thinking Sylar might turn the wonder twins to evil as well. He seems to identify with them, so maybe he won't just kill them and steal their powers. Plus, their two powers are sort of a tandem thing, aren't they? She loses control and goes black-eyes. He calms her down. One person isn't going to be playing both roles.

-Chip

[Gograh]

How about Sylar takes her powers and then finds out he needs to keep Bland Male Character around to keep him from going black-eye catatonic. Then we don't have an all-powerful villain with no achilles heel. He'd had a massive ball and chain and be a much better character.

Also, the black-eyed kids are totally dark versions of Aurora and Northstar. Weak.

[Dave Ries]

Sylar will off brother and take his powers. Maya is the one with the boobs.

Let's have a little montage of Hurricane Katrina. WHY????????? Really?

Mohinder was Steve Gutenberg in his sport coat, t-shirt, and 5 o'clock shadow. Parkman must be Ted Danson. When does Tom Selleck come into play?

Molly is annoying.

There are no totally interesting stories this season thus far. I will give it a few more episodes, and if it doesn't keep my attention, I'm dropping it like I dropped the 2nd Season of 24.

[megank77]

OK, right, I didn't remember the timing on the tomato rose. In that case, what was the extended shot of Micah's hand on her for? Just weird or something specific?


Because she was sad, he was trying to use his powers to help her emotionally like he can fix computers and stuff. But he couldn't. It think it was just cute that he tried.

[hixx]

Hey! I thought last night was awesome! YAY!

I think the nightmare dad is cool and freaky and when he walked out of in the hallway I thought he was VERY scary.

I thought the dual fight was awesomely neat.

I thought Kristin Bell was cute and sassy.

I liked last night.

Hixx

[Chip]

I wonder who blondie's dad is? She was pretty petulant for a girl having just killed a man. I didn't like her performance at all. Or I didn't like the writers and director for telling her to act like that. Didn't feel real at all.

Can someone remind me where Peter's box came from, how it came to be in the Irishman's possession?

A couple minor quibbles. The police uniform the New Orleans cop wore was definitely not a New Orleans police uniform. It should have been a much lighter shade of blue, similar to Chicago PD. Also, the white girl working in the fast food joint, Camille, didn't have a New Orleans accent at all. She had some generic southern accent, but that's not how the New Orleans accent sounds at all.

I am curious how the trio in feudal Japan is going to manage to take down the army... :)

-Chip

[DennisOT]

I wonder who blondie's dad is? She was pretty petulant for a girl having just killed a man. I didn't like her performance at all. Or I didn't like the writers and director for telling her to act like that. Didn't feel real at all.

Can someone remind me where Peter's box came from, how it came to be in the Irishman's possession?

A couple minor quibbles. The police uniform the New Orleans cop wore was definitely not a New Orleans police uniform. It should have been a much lighter shade of blue, similar to Chicago PD. Also, the white girl working in the fast food joint, Camille, didn't have a New Orleans accent at all. She had some generic southern accent, but that's not how the New Orleans accent sounds at all.

I am curious how the trio in feudal Japan is going to manage to take down the army... :)

-Chip

I've never seen this show or even heard it described. Reading the details in this post with no sense of context makes Chip seem insane.

[Hendo]

I think Nathan Petrelli is Kristin Bell's daddy. That's why he was so pissed when she killed Ryan. His other daughter is blond and has powers, so why not?

Either that, or it's baldy/glasses dude from the Company.

[franks]

yes, i totally think it is the bill (or bob) from the company. he's the one looking for all of them so i'm thinking its him, plus he has powers and its all in the genes. i have no idea who the acter is playing that girl, but eh, i didn't like her to much.

i think peter got in the shipping compartment by bennet, mohinder(sp?), ands the haitian. they needed to wipe everything from his cranium memoriess but left him with some tangible ones, or maybe that's what he had on them. i wonder if wiping out all of peters memory is the reason the haitian was sick. (in season one, wouldn't micah feel weird after using hs power to much???)

also, when peter got to irish girls house the first thing i thought was she could paint the future. i was happy she couldn't but like peter i totally forgot that he could. pleasently surprised.

one more thing though, where the fuck did micah get that 9th wonder, was that the one he found really early in season 1 and didn't tell anyone about? and another thing. the whole first season, niki was all about micah, he was her world. then at the end of the season she realizes jessica left her and she had the power all along, but than like that she drops micah to get rid of her powers. it just seems weird, i didn't get it.

[Rance Rizzutto]

I think the secret guy/daddy of Kristen Bell is Nathan and Peter's dad. He probably dead just like Anakin Skywalker was dead. He's just bad.

I liked that Parkman's powers are going to grow into more than hearing thoughts.

I was wondering what was up with the 9th wonders too.

It was nice to have a break from the crying mexico twins.

I had a thought about Micah's cousin. If she sees someone do something (not just on TV as we learned from the piano) she can do it. What happens when she sees Nathan fly or Kristin Bell shoot lightning?

[Hendo]

I don't think her powers work that way, Rance. She's a "muscle mimic", meaning she can do anything anyone else can do without having to learn it. But I'm pretty sure it relates to things only ordinary mortals can do with their muscles.

[Rance Rizzutto]

But we thought Parkman could only read minds...then he advanced. She could advance to mimic powers. (I don't believe she will, btw)

When she does they will put her, Peter, back to normal Sylar, Peter's dad, and Chekov from Star Trek in a room together.

[Chip]

Well, she saw Micah turn the tv on and off with his power and she didn't mimic that. I think Hendo's right. She has the muscle mimicry only, at least for now.

[yurwitz]

Some thoughts on Kristin Bell's character -
1) So during the missing 4 months, I assume she and Peter have had some contact, since it's her lightening ability that he's been using recently and I don't think he had that before.
2) Articles about her say she has a connection with the Patrelli's and HRG. Is she related?
2a) She could be HRG's real daughter, but I doubt it
2b) She could be Nathan's daughter, but I think she's too old, and she wouldn't be talking to Nathan about Peter like that.
2c) She could be Nathan and Peter's sister (or half-sister). This would mean their father is alive. I honestly don't think he had any powers if I read the comic books correctly about how he and Linderman met, but he was still a part of that superhero group.
2d) She could be Nathan and Peter's half sister on their mother's side only, and the father is one of the other O.H. (Original Hero)
3) I think the articles also said we wouldn't know if she's good or bad, even though she starts out with a murder or two. This is typical that they make you think someone is good or bad, and then switch it on you(see Parkman's dad for example). Not sure how that will work since she has murdered someone, but they will probably make her be good in the end.
4) She's hot.

[Dave Ries]

Well...at least it got interesting part way through. You saved yourself, Heroes. I'll continue to watch.

Parkman's Dad - I like.
Kristen Bell - Daddy's girl, but once she breaks daddy's rules (killing someone) she gets told to return. Good or Bad? Don't know.
Break from the black eye twins was nice, but that was also a break from Sylar...which I miss.
Great, you're a muscle mimic. Let's watch Micah giggle some more. Boring.
Mohinder? What's the time line on his story? Is that really him in New Orleans? Why is he on this show so much? He's terrible.
David Lynch must have guest directed the segment in their minds. Backwards talking, weirdness abounds. I'm glad they resolved it this episode.
Hiro's story is getting VERY repetetive. "I'm living the things I read as a child. Remember when I was a child? I read some things, and now I'm making them happen. The things I read. When I was a child."

You get one "won me back" point for this week. You must now accumulate at least one per remaining episode, or I don't bother watching them online.

[franks]

1. yes micah and the giggles was really really weird, almost uncomfortable to watch.
Also, who the fuck still wears jerri curls. i'm sure he gets his ass kicked a lot at school.

2. why can't ando just look in history books or ask someone around who also would know about the history of kensei?

[Dave Ries]

2. why can't ando just look in history books or ask someone around who also would know about the history of kensei?

I'm ruling this one the "Back to the future theory". Sure, it is in the past, but Hiro is currently in the past, living his future. What? Basically, I'm predicting the gimick will be that the words don't fully appear on the scroll until Hiro has completed the task in the past. So, I'm sure there will be some shot of the scrolls having lettering appear on them as Ando and microscope guy look at them.

[Chip]

It's just a convention for time travel type stories. Even though something that happening in the past would show up instantaneously in the present, it gets slowly revealed in the present as the story progresses in the past. Think of it this way. As Ando reads/deciphers the scrolls, we see Hiro's story unfold instead of the other way around. We are watching the depiction of what Ando is reading.


-Chip

[megank77]

I don't think Micah gave her the copycat powers, she did the tomato thing before he put his hand on her back.

Can I just say that the player on NBC.com sucks? It's constantly freezing up no matter what computer I try to watch from the next morning. Maybe too much traffic on the website? I haven't been able to find an alternative since tv-links got busted. Why aren't they putting them up on iTunes as they come out like they did last year? I'd pay $1.99 occaisionally to watch it uninterrupted. I gotta get my fix!

p.s. Sylar hasn't lost his powers. He could still impregnate me with just his icy stare through the magical teevee.

[sammy]

NBC has the worst player imho. ABC's is alright. CBS' is passable.

[yurwitz]

Why aren't they putting them up on iTunes as they come out like they did last year? I'd pay $1.99 occaisionally to watch it uninterrupted. I gotta get my fix!


I think NBC wanted iTunes to charge $3.99 per episode, and iTunes wouldn't do it so the contract wasn't renewed. The contract doesn't run out until December, so there was a battle as to whether the episodes aired in 2007 would be available, but iTunes decided against it. I have the same issue watching NBC shows online. I hate it.

To add to my frustration, I had purchased a program that would convert the TV shows I recorded to my computer's DVR to my video iPod for around $30. It was awesome, until my old computer crashed and I bought a new one. The new one runs on Vista, which isn't compatible with the conversion software. I know, I should have bought a Mac.

I really want to see mama Patrelli's powers. I don't know why, but I keep picturing her in a Wonder Woman outfit, and that's not a good thing.

[Hendo]

I really want to see mama Patrelli's powers. I don't know why, but I keep picturing her in a Wonder Woman outfit, and that's not a good thing.

What the? Why the fuck would you DO that? I never, not ONCE, had that picture in my head.

Now it won't leave.

God damn you straight to Hell.

[rene]

Heroes is kinda sucking this season. I may not watch another episode.

[Chip]

Did they say why Adam wants to kill the old heroes? I couldn't remember if they did.

-Chip

[aneg]

Heroes is kinda sucking this season. I may not watch another episode.
its true, and th show knows it.

Heroes' Creator Apologizes to Fans

On the chilly Monday morning that Hollywood's writers went on strike, Heroes creator Tim Kring called from the streets outside the Hollywood studio where his NBC series is shot. ''Yes, I'm picketing my own show,'' says the 50-year-old writer-producer. ''So surreal.''

But Kring wasn't calling to discuss labor woes ? he was calling to explain why Heroes, suffering a creative decline and a 15 percent ratings drop from the same period last year, went from Human Torch hot to Iceman cold. The good news? A turnaround appears to be under way. After weeks of sluggish storytelling, the Nov. 5 episode recaptured some of last season's fanciful energy. We've also seen the next two episodes ? and we like them, too. The cliff-hangers are back. Narrative purpose has been discovered. Old favorites like Peter (Milo Ventimiglia) and Horn-Rimmed Glasses (Jack Coleman) take center stage. Even more encouraging: Kring himself is keenly aware that Heroes is broken. Here's his candid critique:

THE PACE IS TOO SLOW ''We assumed the audience wanted season 1 ? a buildup of intrigue about these characters and the discovery of their powers. We taught [them] to expect a certain kind of storytelling. They wanted adrenaline. We made a mistake.''

THE WORLD-SAVING STAKES SHOULD HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED SOONER The premonition of nuclear apocalypse created a larger context that unified every story line last season. Kring now sees that Volume 2 (the first 11 episodes of season 2) would have been better served if Peter's vision of viral Armageddon had appeared in the season premiere rather than episode 7. ''We took too long to get to the big-picture story,'' he says.

THE ROOKIES DIDN'T GREET THEMSELVES PROPERLY New Heroes Monica (Dana Davis), Maya (Dania Ramirez), and Alejandro (Shalim Ortiz) ''shouldn't have been introduced in separate story lines that felt unattached to the show. The way we introduced Elle (Kristen Bell) ? by weaving her in via Peter's story line ? is a more logical way to bring new characters into the show.'' (That said, Kring says a few newbies won't make it beyond this second volume, which wraps Dec. 3.)

HIRO WAS IN JAPAN WAY TOO LONG Hiro's (Masi Oka) time-bending adventure in 17th-century Japan ? where he mentored samurai hero Takezo Kensei (David Anders) ? finally came to an end on Nov. 5. But Kring says it ''should have [lasted] three episodes. We didn't give the audience enough story to justify the time we allotted it.''

YOUNG LOVE STINKS Kring regrets sticking Claire (Hayden Panettiere) with a super-dud boyfriend and forcing Hiro to moon over a cutesy princess. ''I've seen more convincing romances on TV,'' he admits. ''In retrospect, I don't think romance is a natural fit for us.''

Yet while Heroes has finally found some dramatic traction, this second volume is pretty much a wash. The Dec. 3 episode has been retooled to function as a potential season finale ? a move inspired by the writers' strike and a desire to give the show ''a clean slate'' when it goes back into production for Volume 3. At that point, Kring wants to craft a rebooted Heroes that can attract new fans and win back those who've tuned out: ''The message is that we've heard the complaints ? and we're doing something about it.''

[franks]

Did they say why Adam wants to kill the old heroes? I couldn't remember if they did.

-Chip


they said that they had him locked up for years and that he escaped,
but they didn't really say anything specific on why he is picking them off.

question?

so if you can regenerate you do not age?

and if adam wants revenge on hiro why wouldn't he just stop the family line years and years ago.

what are the chances that kristen bell is adams daughter?

[Leslieface]

Thats good Tim Kring knows its getting a little dumb. Not for a minute do I believe Molly doesn't have issues about her parents being murdered in front of her and just being ok with Matt and Mohinder being her "fathers". Whats the deal?
In other news, I friggin love that Adam Monroe thing. He's so evil! :D

[Leslieface]

question?

so if you can regenerate you do not age?


I think that Adam uses Peters "traveling through time" powers to "change history" as he said, and he totally didn't bank on Hiro coming back into the 16th century so he had to act fast.
Thats why i think he's in both times. maybe? :D

i love this show.:D

[Hendo]

question?

so if you can regenerate you do not age?

Well, if you're following comic-book logic, yep. You don't age.

Look at Wolverine. He's well over 100 years old, supposedly.

[sammy]

I like to think Kring suffered from his own hubris: remember last year when he was all like "we learned from Lost's mistakes" and "we know what we're doing"?

Then he expands the cast with people we don't care about (ala the "tailies"), adds new mysteries before shedding light on old ones (anything on Lost) and separates his cast (Beach, Jin/Sawyer/Michael with the Tailies). The last one is the most puzzling because, GODDAMMIT, the entire cast was finally together in the finale and then they split them all up. guh.

[hixx]

Nothing? no one has anything to say?

I thought it was a pretty neat episode. I like that, this is what Damages did, gave you the future and the past and then eventually led you to everything that happened in the middle.

I dunno.

Hixx

[Monahan]

This was the first episode I've seen in a while, and I'm kinda glad I missed a bunch prior to this, cause I feel like this episode pretty much caught me up.

[Dave Ries]

This pretty much should have been the first episode of the season. It's what we wanted to see.
BOO though for bringing D.L. back just to have him shot in a lame-o way.

I liked it better when I thought he had died from Linderman's gun.

I'm watching again, but i'm still weary.

[Telfer]

This show isn't very good.

[Bryan Cohen]

**Spoilers**


With Heroes I feel like it's always this scale of cool ideas and dumb ideas. Things that make you go "ah ha" and things that make you go "oh come on!"

Fun stuff:
Niki's attempt to suppress her multiple personalities
Adam's blood curing Nathan (thus explaining why he keeps seeing himself all burned in the mirror, because he wasn't healed naturally) and helping to get Peter his thoughts back
Elle explaining her past
Peter catching Nathan was pretty bad ass, I wish this would've been in the finale, it would've been so much COOLER!

Bleh stuff:
Agreed on DL being brought back to die lamely
How ridiculously bad is the security of The Company? And for them to have a vent that Peter and Adam could talk to each other through? Pretty stupidly convenient.
Um, how about Nathan's wife leaving him on a quick recommendation from the mother? Unless of course, her powers were involved, which might move this up to not being so stupid.
Why is Bob everywhere? I liked it better when he was just kind of mysterious.
Why did they only send Bob and Elle after Peter and Adam. Does the company really just consist of the two of them? Where the hell is everybody else all of the time!? This screams of a creepily empty Kirby Plaza during the finale.

Those are my thoughts. This episode...I was glad enough to see what happened after the explosion to outweigh the bad. But this showdown they're building up to better ACTUALLY BE A SHOWDOWN!

[Chip]

SPOILERS for 11/19 eipsode

Tonight's episode had the potential to be pretty great, what with the Bennett/Bob showdown.

Then they took the chickenshit way out and resurrected Bennett after he got shot. Note to writers when they come back from strike. Let characters die! It serves the story. I know it's sad and you like them, but stop doing that. Please.

-Chip

[Bryan Cohen]

I give them an episode to make it up to us.

Let's see what they do with Bennett. I'm interested to see where he fits into the scheme.

[franks]

yeah, it was weird when bennet stopped mohinder, especially with the whole "you can't play god" theme of the chapter. and they should have left him dead, at least for a couple of weeks/episodes.

i loved hiro's face upon realizing who adam actually was.

not to be a real dork but occasionally i read the online comics, and todays was about adam back in the day looking for others with his or similar abilities. he finds one in the first part of a 2 part comic. wouldn't it be cool if that was the person who actually saved bennet. i mean it lookes like "the company" facilities where bennet woke up but still it would be a cool twist.

one more thing, so what adam is immortal and can heal. what makes him so dangerous. other people can fly, throw lightning, and plague you so what gives. someone should just shiv him in the brain, or chop off his head then hack it open. although i do like his character.

[Leslieface]

if bob doesn't like bennett then why did he use Claire's blood to heal him?

they need to keep people dead. OR like you said, left him dead for a couple of weeks.

Oh but I love Adam he is so evil and we dont' even know why. :D

[yurwitz]

why aren't they showing us the powers of the old-school company people? Bob has the gold thing, Linderman could heal people, and Parkman had mind control. What about the Patrellis, Hiro's dad, Charles, or the woman from last night? That's frustrating me.

So is Sylar falling for that girl, or is just waiting until he gets his powers back before he kills her?

I love the cliff hanger of Peter and Hiro. Nice work.

[rkozlowski]

My wife asked me what the hell Sylar is doing, but think about it. He comes across this woman whose power is basically "get upset and everyone around me dies." He's going with her to see Suresh to get his power back so he can kill her and steal that power. I figure that he thinks he can convince Suresh that he's no longer evil because Suresh is the most stupid person that any writer has ever conceived of, in the history of all storytelling.

[franks]

is next week the end of the series?

[supes]

Nope, just the last pre-writer's-strike episode. Designed to be a possible season finale in case the strike is prolonged.

[pinoy3D]

Brand new season begins in less than one hour!!

[Gass]

...and it was craptastic!

[Chip]

Are the writers 8th-graders or are they convinced the world is made up entirely of them?

[Wendy!]

What?! I thought it was awesome! I felt like they gave us exactly what we wanted and much more. But I don't know, I'm not a hater, I've been a fan all along. The only problem I see is that there are so many stories to follow now, I hope that they can get to it all. I'm very excited and


*spoiler*

I had a feeling that Sylar was related to the Petrelli's.....awesome stuff! And how about that creepy creepster scene with Sylar and Claire! My favorite line of the night came from there:
C: Are you going to eat my brain
S: Clare that's disgusting

I love it!!! Yay for good tv!

[Gass]

I am a fan who has become disappointed by this show. The writing has gone down hill since the season 1 finale. It feels like Tim Kring is floundering with the story arcs.

[Chip]

Wendy, here's some of the things that annoyed me (and I want to like it. I want it to be subtle and dazzling and surprising. But it's not that way to me).

SPOILERS

"It's not like destiny will come knocking on my door"

knock knock

"Video from your father about your destiny, sir"

"Hiro, don't open the safe." Of course he's going to open it. If whatever is so dangerous is in there (the formula) that it should NEVER be opened, then just destroy the formula. But if you might need it to be saved for a reason, then you need to TELL Hiro what it is so he'd know when the proper time IS to open the safe.

And speaking of Hiro, who I love...he's been through way too much shit to still be so oblivious and naive! Flashette swings through and snatches his precious formula paper, but you stare in wonder as she talks to you instead of TAKING THE PAPER BACK?!?

Problem 2: Too much time travel (and time travel ineptitude). Peter can travel in time, but to stop his brother from talking about the existence of heroes, all he can think of to do is shoot him?!? Why not jump back 5 minutes earlier and tell Nathan what he saw. You know, like with words instead of bullets.

Also, in general, less time travel, or as Doctor Who would say it, don't go messing around with all that wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey...stuff.

Maya annoys the crap out of me.

Basically, characters do unbelieveably irrational things for the purpose of drama. But they haven't earned those irrationalities by taking the time for real character development. So yeah, it's a let-down for me.

[Wendy!]

Yeah Chip, I guess I can see where your gripes are coming from if that's what you're watching for. I suspend disbelief immensely when I'm watching my Heroes, so those things don't irk me as much. When I want real drama and character development and story arcs, I watch Mad Men, when I want to be entertained by super powers and soap opera-esque villians and not such good guys, I watch Heroes.

[Chip]

I've been spoiled by Dark Knight. I want both! :)

[Wendy!]

Haha!! LOL, I know, Chip, I know..:)

[Steev]

Is Suresh still in this show? Has he taken an acting lesson yet?

[rene]

That bullshit show made me appreciate Lost even more. So predictable.

[yurwitz]

You do have to love the cameo from the Greatest American Hero (William Katt). Guess you should have been wearing your suit, Ralph.

[Evan]

My impression is that they responded to the slow development of last season with wham-bam developments all over the place to kick off this season. But I do hope they slow down things a little bit. It seems to me that you need to make it fun to try and figure out things and anticipate what might happen, but after the season opener there is nothing for me to sink my hooks into to figure out where the show goes next.

I fully embrace the fact that I have to suspend all analystical thought while watching this show in order to enjoy it. And they did set up some things to explore in future episodes at the end. My discomfort is that it will take a lot of skill to bring all of these story lines together in a satisfying way, and I can't say that last season inspired much confidence in the story-telling of the show.

Another drawback to the bam-bam-bam style of the opener is that there isn't really much for us to debate in this thread, other than the overarching question of whether the show sucks.

Evan

[sammy]

I guess what frustrates me most about this show (and why I still tune in despite my misgivings) is that it has soooooo much potential.