LOST

[pinoy3D]

Rose and Bernard are back, living on their own for 3 years!! Where are the other Oceanic survivors??

Did Juliet set off the bomb?

I cannot wait until 2010!!!!!


PS: Post #100

[Chip]

So after watching the episode, I went back and watched the intro clip with Jacob and the other guy. Their conversation about the same thing happening over and over, and Jacob saying it only ends once, everything else is progress...well it almost feels like a conversation between God and the devil. Also, notice one is in white and the other in black.

As for the translation of Ricardus/Richard's response to what lies in the shadow of the statue, it is apparently Latin for "He who will save us all".

[sammy]

What lies in the shadow of the statue?
The one who will save us all.

* * *

Remember all the way back in Season 1, the first couple of episodes when Locke explains the rules of Backgammon?

"Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is dark."

Jacob is the light and (Esau/Bocaj/Fake Locke) is the dark. They were even wearing those colors during the intro.
(http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/cd5f0f552da094be71a31a0fa95066a6)
* * *

So, basically, here's my stab for what's going on.

Jacob and Esau are the mystical keepers of the Island with divergent opinions of humanity and its potential. They vie for control but cannot kill each other directly. Esau's loophole was finding a proxy to do so.

Any time we've seen a dead person on the island (Christian Shepard as faux 'Jacob', Ecko's brother, Ben's daughter) it's been Esau trying to influence events in his favor.

With the inverted outro card, it's pretty much saying how things have flipped.

That's about as much as I'm willing to tackle on one viewing lol.

[Chip]

Where do you get the Esau name?

[sammy]

With all the Biblical stuff being thrown around, I've seen it on AICN and TWOP.

Basically, Esau is Jacob's brother in the bible.

Jacob tricked Esau into giving Jacob his birthright for food (sly reference of fish on beach) and Esau vows to kill Jacob.

In LOST, Jacob probably didn't trick Esau, but since they're brothers in the Bible and the producers love their biblical references...

[pinoy3D]

So do you think Richard may have been cursed or may have chosen to be stricken with life to be an adviser to Jacob, and the island?

And whatever it is that Richard did to make Young Ben forget about Kate, Sayid, and being shot, etc., do you think he did the same thing to Eloise to make her forget about killing Daniel?

[Chip]

And whatever it is that Richard did to make Young Ben forget about Kate, Sayid, and being shot, etc., do you think he did the same thing to Eloise to make her forget about killing Daniel?

I don't think she forgot at all. That was the tragedy of her story, knowing that sending Daniel to the island as an adult would mean that he would be sent to the past where she'd shoot him.

[Evan]

I love the season finales because they are always game changers. Great job this time around. Seeing Locke's dead body tumble out of that cargo container = awesome. Juliet setting off the bomb = awesome. Jacob being aloof and mean to Ben and causing him to stab him = awesome. Jacob meeting up with the various folks in the past = awesome but mysterious.

I'll need to do lots of thinking on this one. Please help by pointing out everything I missed or failed to appreciate.

Evan

[pinoy3D]

I just read an article on Chicago Tribune website mentioning the injury to Chang's hand during the incident, and the prosthetic one he had during one of the training videos. Now, I'm thinking, would he have been at the construction site if Miles and the gang didn't tell him about it? And the other training video with the time traveling Rabbits, maybe he knows about the time travel because of the them.

So, I'm leaning towards whatever happened, happened. But if they can change the future, then I suspect the Variable is going to be one person, not the group.

Anyone feel bad for Ben during this episode. It was also brought up in the article that you actually believed every word he said. He even admits to say the lying is what he does. And, Bad-Locke manipulated Ben into killing Jacob, in the same manner Ben uses to manipulate everyone else. By exploited his weakness of being under appreciated and overlooked, just like how his dad treated him.

[Miss Mason]

What lies in the shadow of the statue?
The one who will save us all.



Is that what he said? Was it Latin? How do you know this? And who does he mean?

[Miss Mason]

I just read an article on Chicago Tribune website mentioning the injury to Chang's hand during the incident, and the prosthetic one he had during one of the training videos. Now, I'm thinking, would he have been at the construction site if Miles and the gang didn't tell him about it? And the other training video with the time traveling Rabbits, maybe he knows about the time travel because of the them.

So, I'm leaning towards whatever happened, happened. But if they can change the future, then I suspect the Variable is going to be one person, not the group.

Anyone feel bad for Ben during this episode. It was also brought up in the article that you actually believed every word he said. He even admits to say the lying is what he does. And, Bad-Locke manipulated Ben into killing Jacob, in the same manner Ben uses to manipulate everyone else. By exploited his weakness of being under appreciated and overlooked, just like how his dad treated him.

Everything about this is awesome.

[MarcMus]

My roommate Matt drew a cartoon of the finale. I think he agrees with your statement. Matt's Cartoon (http://www.octavarius.com/2009/05/13/spoiler-alert/)

I thought it was a little much, but they're known for suspense. Also, I was gonna throw something if they had the whole episode about the bomb and it never went off.

[sammy]

Is that what he said? Was it Latin? How do you know this? And who does he mean?

It was Latin and what he said is slightly open for interpretation, but that's pretty much the gist.

The obvious choice is Jacob, since he is the good angel or god or whatevs. But since this is lost, who knows?

[MarcMus]

http://www.octavarius.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/lost.jpg
(http://www.octavarius.com)
I just found out how to actually put the image here so you don't have to click anything, just enjoy.

[mr.sean]

Was Jacob in Juliet's flashback?

Also, I think whatever happened, happened. I'm rewatching the whole series because there's so much coming out that I forgot. I just watched the first episode of season two and it has Jack first entering the Swan station. He passes what seems to be the crane cemented into the wall. It was a pretty cool thing to see.

And does anyone think Rose and Bernard might be Adam and Eve?

[sammy]

Any lingering questions you might have can be answered by reading this book. (http://gizmodo.com/5253189/jason-chen-and-the-time-banana)

[JPanic]

I don't think Jacob was in Juliet's flashback. That flashback actually seemed a little unnecessary.

Jacob and anti-Jacob can't kill each other for some reason. Ben and Widmore can't kill each other for some reason. I wonder why that is.

[Chip]

And does anyone think Rose and Bernard might be Adam and Eve?

I was thinking that just last week, Sean. Would be an interesting turn of events, I suppose.

[timalimdim]

I don't think Jacob was in Juliet's flashback. That flashback actually seemed a little unnecessary.


Maybe it was unintentional, but I thought Juliet's childhood looked really modern. It didn't look era-appropriate, and they've used that sort of anachronism as a clue before (eg Jack's super-modern cell phone indicating that his bearded breakdown was happening after the island and not before...). Maybe I'm reading too much into that. I'll have to watch it again. They also featured her sister in the flashback. Seems like her sister may come into play somehow, too. Who knows.

Crazy episode. I feel like we saw the ol' Black Rock out there puttering around while Jacob and "Esau" (I like the biblical reference there. Thanks, Sammy) talked. Is this common knowledge? I don't read other Lost boards, so I don't know what's passe and what's not...

I'm sure I'll think of more later, and am SURE I'll watch this thing again 12 or 15 times in the next MILLION MONTHS until the show resumes...

[Craig]

Was no one else alarmed by modern Albert saying, "I remember watching them die" in response to Sun's asking about Jin and company?

[sammy]

re: Juliet's flashback

I think they used it to illuminate Juliet's take on her and Sawyer's relationship--they love each other but they're not meant for each other. So I'm guessing it was a case of Show, Don't Tell regarding her motives.

Secondly, it might come into play exactly because Jacob was not there to touch her and bless her/mark her/etc. foretelling her death.

[Monkey Girl]

Maybe it was unintentional, but I thought Juliet's childhood looked really modern.

I had this same exact thought/issue! Juliet is in her, what, mid-late 30's? Which would put her childhood in the 70's or so, right? That living room and the clothes her family was wearing were way too modern for the 1970's.

[timalimdim]

I had this same exact thought/issue! Juliet is in her, what, mid-late 30's? Which would put her childhood in the 70's or so, right? That living room and the clothes her family was wearing were way too modern for the 1970's.

I went back and watched it again, and decided that was probably unintentional... but I'm not sure. I mean, besides style cues, there were no telltale signs that it wasn't the 70's. I was hoping to glimpse a cell phone or DVD player, but didn't. In addition, Juliet was dressed in bellbottoms and a sort of 70s top, and there were a few things (light fixture in the background and a few other things) that were 70s enough to balance the furniture and other clothing that wasn't nearly 70s enough...

So, in short, I'm prepared to concede that it was just a production issue that made it seem modern... but if we do find out Juliet's from the FUTURE(!) you heard it here first.

[JPanic]

Well, Juliet's about 12 years old or so in the scene. If we put Juliet's DOB close to the actress' DOB, she'd be born in 1970.

So the scene takes place in 1982, or maybe 1985 or 1986 at the latest.

[timalimdim]

Well, Juliet's about 12 years old or so in the scene. If we put Juliet's DOB close to the actress' DOB, she'd be born in 1970.

So the scene takes place in 1982, or maybe 1985 or 1986 at the latest.

The exact dates are unimportant. It didn't seem very "80s" either. My point is that there are style cues that seem modern (as in, from the last few years or so), but nothing in the scene that definitively tells me that it took place in any specific time period. That makes me think the seeming modernity was just due to production decisions, as there's nothing obvious enough to tip the scene to any specific time period.

[Miss Mason]

So a buddy of mine has a theory that I LOVE.

Those flashback with Jacob are not flashbacks at all.

They are what happened after the bomb exploded.

It is all a big cycle.

YES.

[Monkey Girl]

So a buddy of mine has a theory that I LOVE.

Those flashback with Jacob are not flashbacks at all.

They are what happened after the bomb exploded.

It is all a big cycle.

YES.


Whoa. Yes. I like this a lot.

[Chip]

Do you mean that the bomb exploding caused Jacob to visit those people? I'm not sure what the difference is between a flashback, and Jacob visiting the people after the bomb explodes.

Like, in 1977 or whenever, the bomb explodes. In 2004ish, Jacob visits our losties. How does the bomb affect it?

[JPanic]

I *think* Rachel's saying that they're stuck in some kind of seemingly purgatorial time-loop. So Jacob's visits to young Kate, Jack, Locke and everyone happened in some kind of 2nd running of this loop.

[Craig]

If we continue switching between the 70s and 2000s, I say the series finale features Razinksy beginning his several years of isolation - or his suicide. That would - more or less - show us the full timespan of events from the 70s to today.

[pinoy3D]

I don't Radzinsky would commit suicide. I'm sure he was killed/murdered.

[sammy]

Hilarious, I decided to watch the CSI finale on a whim.

Who's in it?

Jacob.

HE'S EVERYWHERE!

eta:
Libby is in it too.

[Frymire]

Since everything seems to point to everything repeating in a loop, I'm guessing that in a cost cutting measure, the final season will simply be the first season re-aired, with inserted shots of the actors making squinty faces and saying, "I feel like we've done this before."

This will be most awkward and obvious with Walt.

[Steev]

I was sort of hoping the next season is just a season of Felicity, with all of the actors from Lost making really small and irrelevant cameos as background characters.

[Chip]

Who is the actor that plays Jacob? He's not listed on IMDB.

[Steev]

His name is Hank Cocklarge. His other work has all been in gay porn.

[Monkey Girl]

His name is Hank Cocklarge. His other work has all been in gay porn.

Chip: A.K.A. Mark Pellegrino

[Chip]

Ah, he's listed as "Man #1". No wonder I couldn't find him. Is that to not spoil it for people who look up the show but aren't on that season yet?

[VinRigan]

I had an odd theory, though the Biblical references are probably more spot-on, and this whole shebang could easily be god vs. devil, though I think that's been denied by the producers, a while ago.

I figured Jacob and "Esau" are from waaaaaaaay in the future. They're like, immortal, probably humanoid robots- at least, they can't kill each other- programming won't allow it, or something. They and their kind built the island, to entice and entrap humans, and to prove a point to one another, or to future humans, or to aliens, or to find God, or something. Or it's all a game. Any way you cut it, they're playing, and we're their pawns.

The people from the Black Rock found the island, and they weren't the first (those who came before built the statue, the temple, etc). They went through their own iteration of the "cycle" we've seen the Losties go through. The Dharma folks went through their own cycle.

The smoke monster is Esau, trying to manipulate. The dead people "residing" on the island (as whatsherface helicopter chick said when convincing Miles to come to the island said) are all Esau, as has been mentioned before. Hell, the whispers might even be Esau.

All the Others are robots, commanded by Esau, pretending to be Jacob (they've never seen him, right?). The humans are all brought there by Jacob, to play this eternal game. It always goes this way, hence them knowing the end will be the same.

Oh, and the nuclear bomb going off has no effect whatsoever on the timeline. Just as "whatever happened, happened", this must occur, like a jigsaw puzzle piece. When they jumped, this is their present, and nothing can change that, or else the whole damn thing falls apart. Also, what Miles said about the bomb being the cause of the accident- hasn't quite been solved, has it?

Ben is a robot, has been since a kid. He belongs to Esau, now. Hence his lies and his easy manipulation by Locke. Oh, and manipulation by the smoke monster/his dead daughter(/Esau).

The little "loophole" exchange by Jacob and Esau happens practically every morning. They've been trying to interact directly with the people who are brought to the island (by Jacob, always by Jacob), and it's still met with the same effect. It's a metaphor, them trying to comprehend the God of the Old Testament, who used to talk directly to people, but gave up. Why? Because of this. Because this game continues to repeat itself.

And Esau is quite brilliant, having seen that he could convince John to die. He didn't even have to do it himself- he just had to get Richard to do it. Totally possible that the Others are all robots just like Jacob/Esau, and that they're somehow powered by the island, which is why they age when they're away.


Something like that.

[Chip]

OK, I don't know about that whole future thing and robots, etc. but one thing you mentioned did make me think.

It was Esau who told Richard to go fix Locke's gunshot wound and to tell him he had to die. At the time, we were assuming that was Locke telling Richard about himself, but now we know it was Esau telling Richard to tell Locke he had to die. And we know (assume) Locke had to die for Esau to corporealize (made that word up) himself as Locke.

I don't think that knowing this has any effect or bearing because whatever happened, happened. But it does make you think, did Locke really have to die?

[Carr]

Tony means they're frakking Toasters!


Erin

[pinoy3D]

Just got LOST Seasons 1-4 on Bluray!!! I'd probably suggest to anyone of my friends who hasn't watched LOST before to start at Season 5, then go to Season 1. Pretty cool going from Season 5, then watching Season 1 again. Its almost like watching Memento. Interesting to see how they got to where they are now.

I don't know if its been discussed, but what if Hurly initially put in the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 into the hatch. What if he gave himself those numbers, since the main theory behind it all is that they're all in a loop. Gah, I cannot wait for season 6 to start!

[Chip]

I was thinking about Esau...what if it's him whenever anyone sees a dead person? I'd be curious to see clips of all the dead person sightings to see if there's a common element/goal to them.

[Leslieface]

I am watching the first episodes of Lost right now.

Freaking.....Locke sat Walt down at a game of backgammon and said. "There are two sides, one is light ,one is dark...Walt, do you want to know a secret?"

In the freaking SECOND episode.

just a fun reminder. And i know probably something happens in the third episode...but...i'm currently watching it and I am crazily typing this before I watch the whole ep. :)

[Brett Mannix]

YAY! Congrats to Michael "Ben Linus" Emerson for winning Best Supporting Actor at the Emmys last night!

It's about damn time!

[Sarah]

Freaking.....Locke sat Walt down at a game of backgammon and said. "There are two sides, one is light ,one is dark...Walt, do you want to know a secret?"

In the freaking SECOND episode.

I know, right?! I got chills when I watched it again.

[sammy]

I've read some minor spoilers for the beginning of the final season and I have a total nerdboner for it.

And for those of you wanting to watch (or rewatch) the first four seasons of LOST, you can go to Hulu!

http://www.hulu.com/lost

[Chip]

Did anyone else watch the series premier of Flash Forward? In one scene early in the episode there's a billboard for Oceanic Air. Also, Dominic Monaghan will be in some future episodes.

Funky...

[Leslieface]

Have you seen this yet!?!?!?!


FEBRUARY 2nd!

<object width="580" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MKcKtjrL5bc&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MKcKtjrL5bc&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="580" height="360"></embed></object>

[Leslieface]

and this is also super fun to watch. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3zvM0EzT7c

Lost Recap of seasons 1-5 in 8 mins 15 secs

[nichbob]

I had never seen an episode as of about noon on Sunday. I finished season 1 last night...roughly 17 hours of Lost in 2 1/2 days...and I work about 10 hours a day. WHY, WHY, WHY DID I START WATCHING!!! anywho, it's real good. i look forward to scouring this thread once i'm caught up. My goal is to be caught up by next week's episode. a lot of wood to chop this weekend.

[Chip]

Good lord that's a lot of Lost to watch in a week!

Might want to DVR that bad boy and buy yourself a few extra days at least... ;)

[pinoy3D]

The new "ABC House" promos are pretty funny. Michael Emerson is the man!

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5ESyH2wuQVw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5ESyH2wuQVw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[Leslieface]

TONIGHT!
Can't wait for discussion tomorrow! :D

[pinoy3D]

I'll start it right now! Holy Wow, I can't wait until next week.

Did anyone notice the similarities in the CPR scene between Jack, Kate, and Sayid -vs- Jack, Kate, and Charlie from Season 1?

[Leslieface]

That first 5 minutes exploded my brain.

[Chip]

I like the bifurcated timelines dynamic. We see both the non-crash and the post-incident events. I'm very curious to see where they'll go with the non-crash timeline because I really have no clue what it's going to mean in the grand scheme of things. Right now the more compelling storyline for me is the on-the-island one, with Smocke (smoke Locke) going after the temple others.

Also, remember, Jin and Sun are yet to be reunited, but at least they're in the same time period now. If only they can get Sun to the temple to join up. I bet that takes a few episodes, though.

LOVED the opening underwater sequence!

AND we finally saw what happened to the kids that the others took back in season 1. They and the stewardess are now others. That was a nice little tidbit.

We learned that Richard used to be Smocke's prisoner or slave, because of the chains reference. Speaking of chains, there were lots of them lately. Richard's chains, the chains that they used to free Juliet, and the chains that caught Juliet and sucked her down the hole in the first place.

Cool stuff to explore. Still no clue where this is going, but I like it. I do hope for more answers soon. I don't want all of them to come in the final episode (and the producers have said they'll release answers throughout the final season). But the big one for me from tonight is learning that Jacob's nemesis is the smoke monster. That's badass!

[Monahan]

I feel like the bifurcated timelines are the set-up that basically stymies Esau's attempt to "get home" (i.e. he does what he needs to get home, but because of the explosion he's trapped in time & unable to escape), thus making Jack the long suffering hero get his due.

[pinoy3D]

I am willing to bet that Richard was on the Black Rock when they first arrived on the Island, possibly as a slave.

Did I hear Richard say evil-Locke's name before he knocked/killed(?)? Where did Desmond go? Anyone laugh a little at Ben standing over the fire?

[Monkey Girl]

I agree with Richard being a slave on the ship. That was my thought as well.

I think Desmond disappearing from the plane was just his normal time-shifting Constant thing that he does from time to time. ;)

Couple things:

- When Jack went to the bathroom on the plane, he had a cut/blood on his neck. That's *gotta" mean something.
- Boone was on the plane. But where was Shannon? Am I missing something?
- Juliet saying she had to tell Sawyer something VERY important. And then Miles hearing her say "It worked". Awesome.
- Where is Christian/Christian's body? So many possibilities.
- Back when Jacob gave Hurley the guitar case (in the cab when Hurley was leaving prison). He gets out of the cab, and Hurley says "You forgot your case". To which Jacob says "Oh, that isn't mine". At the time, made sense, like "It's *your* case". Now I wonder who's case it really is. And what is written on that piece of paper?!

My favorite line of the night, when Jack and John are in the airport lost and found... Jack: "Nothing's irreversible". I think that should be the slogan for this season.

[Leslieface]

-Boone was on the plane. But where was Shannon? Am I missing something?
I think in this alternate-timeline, Boone didn't get Shannon to leave with him!? you think?

- Juliet saying she had to tell Sawyer something VERY important. And then Miles hearing her say "It worked". Awesome.
So how does Juliet know it worked!? Do you think....when she died....she arrived in that alternate time period? KNOWING what was going on!? Someones Got to know everything...Just a theory.

-Did I hear Richard say evil-Locke's name before he knocked/killed
He didn't. I was watching with 6 other people and we listened intently. All he said was "Its You". and Smocke said "its me" and he kicked Richards ass.

Also. Funny how even in the alternate time everyone has made connections with each other> they are meant to be in each others lives!!!! Gaaaah.

[Leslieface]

Also. If you're like me and it sometimes takes someone else to point out stuff...

Like why did Jack on the plane get only 1 vodka bottle and not 2?

then read Entertainment Weekly's recap! (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20341211,00.html#)

[pinoy3D]

something that Jacob said during last year's season finale. Right before Ben kills him, Jacob told him, "you have a choice." I think that means a lot, especially for Jacob to say that. Destiny, fate may not be written in stone, and free will runs strong

[Chip]

OK, where did the VW bus come from that they used to haul off the girder to free Juliet?

The people had just jumped through time by 30 years to find themselves at the ruined hatch location. The VW bus that they used was present in 1977 with them. So did it travel through time as well? Cause every other mechanical object from 1977 near the swan worksite was gone. So did the VW bus just not get moved in 30 years? And it sure started right up when needed, unlike the other bus that Hurley got going a few seasons ago.

Was I not supposed to notice that?

[pinoy3D]

Whatever they touch, travels with them. Remember the rafts/zodiac that they were riding when they being shot at? That traveled with them, too, along with the guns.

What's with the episode title? The title is LA X. What's the deal with the space? LA 10, maybe?

[Steev]

OK, where did the VW bus come from that they used to haul off the girder to free Juliet?

The people had just jumped through time by 30 years to find themselves at the ruined hatch location. The VW bus that they used was present in 1977 with them. So did it travel through time as well? Cause every other mechanical object from 1977 near the swan worksite was gone. So did the VW bus just not get moved in 30 years? And it sure started right up when needed, unlike the other bus that Hurley got going a few seasons ago.

Was I not supposed to notice that?

It was established in Season 3 that the VW is a time machine. Ben was using it to travel back and forth in time to rescue the others.

[Crescent]

Man I don't know what's wrong with me but i didn't like the premiere at ALL! I thought the underwater animation was hysterical and corny. I felt like the whole ep was kind of lazy and almost a parody of itself. I might just be crabby though. I'll try it again tonight.

[Griggs]

I"m with you Crescent. I was expecting better.

The temple was...corny.

[Crescent]

I"m with you Crescent. I was expecting better.

The temple was...corny.

and the costumes.

[HeatherConnelly]

One thing I noticed all by myself (!) is Sun is called "Ms. Paik" and neither Jin nor Sun are wearing wedding bands!

[Chip]

One thing I noticed all by myself (!) is Sun is called "Ms. Paik" and neither Jin nor Sun are wearing wedding bands!

Ooo, I did not notice that at all. Nice catch!

I'm intrigued by Desmond reading Salman Rushdie's "Haroun and the Sea of Souls". It's basically a story within a story. In Haroun and the Sea of Stories, the boy, Haroun, has to enter a fantasy story world in order to restore the flow of the sea of stories so that his father can, in real life, regain his ability to tell stories. The characters on the inside story are allegories of the people in the outside story, sort of like in the Wizard of OZ when Dorothy wakes up and sees the alter egos of the lion, tin man, etc. (and the book itself is an allegory of Salman Rushdie's difficulty with being separated from his family and unable to tell his own son stories, because of his political exile).

I wonder if that's somehow an analog of the two timelines we're seeing this season. Not necessarily that one is the dream of the other or inside the other, but that they're not entirely separate, and might affect each other. Juliet's posthumous message, "it worked" is our first evidence that there is some way to see one world from the other. Next will be to see if that vision can go both ways, and if anyone can affect a change on the other world.

While I don't think this is the key to Lost, I think it's a fun thematic idea to play with while watching this side-by-side thing play out.

[Atrain]

Ok so I am chiming in a little late here, but very good point about the similarities between Jack/Kate/Charlie CPR scene and Jack/Kate/Sayeed scene.

In the RedEye LOST edition, they said one of the cast members would "sing"
I am wondering if Sayeed is somehow taking on the soul of Charlie being it was his guitar case with the note? I originally thought it was Jacob who also found a loop hole and into Sayeeds body. The weird thing though is when Jacob and his nemesis did this in previous episodes, the body would get up...with Locke theres two separate bodies.

I am gonna go catch up on the other posts about the time travel. It seems as if they are caught between to alt realities hence holding their heads in Dharma world after something loud happens in LAX world.

[Atrain]

In the promo pix on ABC, Locke is at the table as Jesus...I am expecting a "Resurrection" of the original Locke.

[Leslieface]

"I originally thought it was Jacob who also found a loop hole and into Sayeeds body."


OHHOOO HOOOO. I like that idea.

[sammy]

I'm intrigued by Desmond reading Salman Rushdie's "Haroun and the Sea of Souls".

From Wiki by way of an io9 poster:

"Haroun and the Sea of Stories is a 1990 children's book[1] by Salman Rushdie. It was Rushdie's first novel after The Satanic Verses. It is a phantasmagorical story set in a city so old and ruinous that it has forgotten its name.[2]"

The book includes the following things:

- an ancient city so old that people forgot it existed
- a war between the rulers of that ancient city
- a main character who is represented by two sides of himself: an "anthropomorphic shadow" and a "diminished man"
- a "poisoned ocean" caused by above man's splitting of himself into two parts
- a potential mutiny of one of the warring tribes led by a man who isn't the leader
- the anthropomorphic shadow has the ability to "appear identical" to some of the people in the city
- a plan to destroy the ocean using "complicated machines powered by electromagnetic induction"
- the Big Bad is killed at the end after his ice palace melts and his giant statue falls on him
- "a landscape whose weather changes to reflect the emotions of the people currently present in it"
- the two tribes are kept apart "by a force field named Chattergy's Wall"
- "At the South Pole of Kahani is a spring known as the Source of Stories, from which (according to the premise of the plot) originated all stories ever communicated. The prevention of this spring's blockage therefore forms the climax of the novel's own story."

[Steev]

I don't think the bomb sunk the island. I don't think the bomb did squat on the island to undo the crash. I think whatever sunk the island will happen in one of the last few episodes.

[pinoy3D]

This was kinda of a weak episode. Its had it's nice moments, but this one was chalk full "Wtf is going on?" moments. I thought LOST was done with the vagueness and lying of the previous seasons. I'm just glad that this is the last season because I trust that all will be answered. I'm going to have to watch it again to see if I'm mistaken.

I will say though, Josh Holloway is long overdue for some kind award nomination Emmy and/or Golden Globe.

[Monahan]

I don't think we've gotten any new wtf moments, though. I mean, the "infection" discussion was a slight illumination on the phenomenon that Danielle talked about way back in Season 1.

We're getting closer to answers for sure, it's just that they're answers to questions we forgot we were asking.

[rene]

That episode totally sucked. Kate's alternate time story was crap.

I almost wanted to see Nikki & Paolo...almost.

[Griggs]

Some really bad moments...

Why would Claire get back in a cab of someone who had just held her at gunpoint?

Why would she also ask that person to go to the door with her to meet the new parents of her child?

Good moments?

Miles! Everything he says is funny.

Claire turning into Russo was kind of cool.

[Chip]

So what did the glowing hot rod tell whats-his-face when he pressed it to Sayid?

I was also fairly annoyed at the unnecessary vagueries of the Others. Just tell the people what's going on. There's something on the island, and it can infect people somehow (method of transmission hasn't been revealed, has it?) and the person you know doesn't inhabit their body anymore. Something else does.

What I'm curious about is how someone gets infected. I thought it was perhaps Sayid getting shot that started it, or perhaps reviving him in the tainted water. But I don't remember anything really happening to Claire in the time before she started acting weird. She just sort of wandered off into the jungle and left her baby, and went to hang out in the cabin with Christian. Anybody remember anything more specific than that?

[pinoy3D]

I had assumed that Christian really was speaking on behalf of Jacob, but then his Nemesis had taken over the cabin, and possibly taken over Christian's body. Remember the ash had a gap in it.

It was nice to see that there really is a sickness. I can't wait to see what it really is. Maybe Ben was infected with it as well.

[Brybeck01]

ugh. that was mostly crap.

I agree that Miles was funny.

Why even introduce this new group of others?

Mac from Always Sunny, playing Mac. I guess he was on the show before?

the long pauses, and hold for dramatic effect move... wermp

[pinoy3D]

Mac from Always Sunny, playing Mac. I guess he was on the show before?

He was in an episode in Season 3 where they break out Carl from the "Clockwork Orange" room. He was standing guard outside when Kate knocks him out with the butt of her rifle .

[Chip]

Watching the episode a second time, it's clear that Claire set the rock trap that Kate us to escape the Others. The one guy says "looks like one of Rousseau's traps," then the other other says, "Rousseau's been dead for years. It must have been-" and then he's cut off by the first guy.

So Claire is going all Rousseau, but Rousseau clearly wasn't taken over by the infection. And it had something to do with her being pregnant. And Claire was pregnant. So maybe Claire isn't all gone as the Other leader guy said. After all, when Jin says "Claire," she seems to have sort of a confused recognition of the name.

Sayid, on the other hand, I think we're gonna see him get "claimed".

[HeatherConnelly]

Too frustrating with even more questions/mysteries piling on in the island story and the nagging feeling that the flashsides might as well be fan fiction.

I discovered that "What Kate Does" is bore me.

[Chip]

I'd be surprised if the alternate timeline is irrelevant or serving only as character development. The characters are developed. Something else is going on, and we just don't know yet.

[Monahan]

Also, there have been no new questions. Any newish seeming question is actually part of an answer to an old question, so we're getting there, we're just missing the rosetta stone episode.

[pinoy3D]

I need to watch this episode again because I know that there was a lot of things that I missed. I really feel like this was a good episode that really set us up for a huge spike. Just a few observations;

-Did anyone notice the similarities between Locke down on his lawn with his sprinklers vs the Pilot episode when he was on the beach and it started raining?

-Was anyone else expecting Walt to be the kid that Locke asks about the whereabouts of the teachers lounge?

-Do you think the tests they performed on Sayid were the same tests they ran on Walt?

Best line goes to Frank at the funeral.

[Chip]

So who is going to take Jacob's place on the island? Obviously not Sawyer. I'd have said Locke, if he weren't dead.

Here's a thought I had last night. What if the Locke in LA is actually Smocke, or has Smocke somewhere, latent, in him? Yeah, I don't think it works, because Locke was acting like his normal self, not the confident guy that Smocke is.

I want another look at the names on the wall.

The kid the Smocke sees...is that a young Jacob, or is that possibly some apparition of Aaron?

Hats off to Terry O'Quinn, btw. He's done a nice job of differentiating the two characters he's playing.

[moon_shoes]

So the numbers on the rock were the swan/lottery numbers. That's pretty rad.

Also, I love seeing Hugo being successful.

Also also, I got totally freaked in the ladder scene.

Also^3, Also Lefleur knowing Smocke (Like the term Chip) wasnt Locke is great. I like it when characters deduct things for themselves.

This is the lost I love.

[Leslieface]

I didn't even notice that it was WALT! Wow. And I thought it was funny that Ben didn't turn around in the teachers lounge for a long time when we could totally tell it was him. Or at least I could, right when I heard his voice.

I had thought that blonde kid on the island is the reincarnation of Jacob. As if he can be killed but he is just reborn on that island......until he gets a replacement?

Could it be Shepard!?

I love Hurly.

[sether]

What is Kate is supposed to take over the island because she is the only main character without a number?

Eek, so exciting!

[Crescent]

Too frustrating with even more questions/mysteries piling on in the island story and the nagging feeling that the flashsides might as well be fan fiction.

I discovered that "What Kate Does" is bore me.

dude. I'm hanging on for dear life with this show. I think cancer took my drama bone. I haven't seen last night's ep yet but will watch tonight. I hear it's good and will get me back. It better. TV owes me that much.

[Crescent]

You know what I want? Less hippy ass robes and temples and more Desmond and Faraday and SCIENCE!!!!

[Leslieface]

This is good fun.

Cartoons of LOST moments (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grickle/sets/72157623448579552/)

[Chip]

I'm not sure what we were supposed to make of the juxtaposition of Locke in LA vs Smocke on the island, other than the obvious fact that both characters are played by the same actor. Is it just that Smocke is confident and a do-er and Locke seemed to give up a lot?

[Monkey Girl]

If you don't already, all y'all Lost fans should read Jeff Jensen's weekly write-up over at Entertainment Weekly online.

It's usually a hefty read, and long-winded at times, but this week's was especially informative and great:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20344822,00.html

[Griggs]

I was getting worried there for awhile. The first 3 episodes were duds and I thought this show was going out with a whimper. Last night's episode redeemed the show in my eyes.

It was smart, informative and full of depth.

I am a little worried though. This whole plot with Smoke Locke and Jacob seems to have rendered the battle between Ben and Widmore as moot. Their war just seems to not matter anymore at all.

More episodes with Locke! He's the best and most intriguing character on the show. After that, let's see Desmond and Faraday.

I also have a feeling we're going to see that Hurley is married to Libby in sideways world.

[Dave Ries]

You guys keep bringing up Faraday coming back, but wouldn't that kind of make the whole dramatic "I killed my own son" a moot point?

[sammy]

Dave, Ethan was alive, so wouldn't that render Charlie shot him dead a moot point...or Arzt was alive, so wouldn't that render "be careful with that dyna-BOOM" moot...or... ;)

[Tabs]

Does Faraday exist in the new timeline?

In sideways world, it looked like the island is at the bottom of the ocean.
I think when Juliet blew up the bomb, it was as the white light flashed...so what timeline did the island sink in?
Depending on when it was, Faraday may never have been born, since his parents were on the island at various times and could have been killed in the blast.

[HeatherConnelly]

How does an island sink anyway?

[Monahan]

How does an island sink anyway?

Slowly. Very slowly.

[Monahan]

Also, Sammy, I think you and Dave are talking about different timelines.

[Brybeck01]

This past episode was SO much better than last weeks. So relieved.

I was worried.

Great acting at moments. Smocke is fascinating.

[Dave Ries]

Also, Sammy, I think you and Dave are talking about different timelines.

Yes. I am talking about the here and now on the island, not the fantasy realm of sidelife. Not that parts aren't interesting...I'm just really caught up in island life so far.

[Crescent]

This past episode was SO much better than last weeks. So relieved.

I was worried.

Great acting at moments. Smocke is fascinating.

I finally watched it and agree. I'm back on board-ish. I didn't need the freaky music when Rose walked in though. We get it. It's Rose.

[sammy]

I didn't need the freaky music when Rose walked in though. We get it. It's Rose.



OR IS IT!?!





http://thenewgamer.com/content/files/images/lost_via_domus_closing_title.jpg

[Chip]

So here's what I want to discuss about last night's episode.

1) Jacob is taking a pretty direct role in Hurley's life, pretty much telling him exactly what he wants him to do.

2) Sideways Jack has a son, and we get to see, yet again, the theme of father figures. Again. But we do see that Jack's island appendectomy has somehow manifested in Sideways world, and it has a backstory. More evidence that the two worlds are connected. Still not sure what the point is of Sideways world, but I trust that there is one.

3) The intentional obfuscation of information was way too apparent in the lighthouse scene. First, you discover that this contraption can show you things across the world, and you SMASH IT!?! I don't care how pissed at Jacob you are, you play around with that shit! Second, they go to all the trouble of showing you that the names are on the dial and that the degrees correspond with the childhood homes of the people, and they tell you that Hurley was going to be setting the dial to 108 degrees, but they don't show you whose name is at 108 degrees!?! That's just cheap. Hurley would have at least looked at the dial to see who they can't summon now. And so I just don't buy the reality for these characters in this scene. It really took me out of the show and made me feel like a viewer watching a bunch of words that some people wrote in LA. Boo, Lost! You can do better!

[moon_shoes]

I love that Hurley is in the show so much right. He is just so lovable.

Chip, I agree that I was pissed at the writers when Jack broke the mirror. However, thinking back, that's just what Jack does. He doesn't care about answers, he throws little hissy fits that prolong the progress of the story. I am now convinced that Jack is not supposed to be a likable Character, because his motivations are always changing and are never quite clear.

But, we got to see what a more compassionate and curious Jack would be like in the alternate world. It is my belief that this flash sideways are all meant to illustrate the characters flaws, by showing them less flawed. Locke is able to come to terms with his disability, Kate tries to help Claire, Jack tries to be a better father than his father was.

I don't know. Maybe the old Jack would break the mirror...

[sammy]

It is my belief that this flash sideways are all meant to illustrate the characters flaws, by showing them less flawed. Locke is able to come to terms with his disability, Kate tries to help Claire, Jack tries to be a better father than his father was.

I think Louie is spot-on here. I also think the sideways world also shows that these people were always fated to meet, no matter what the circumstances (or that the sideways world is self-correcting by having them meet).

[sammy]

also:

What did Dogen say? (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/02/what-did-dogen-say.html#more)

[rene]

108 is "Wallace" no idea who that is. (sorry i couldn't resize)

http://img.skitch.com/20100224-pg94fbcrj6gy686ak17qhgde58.png

[moon_shoes]

From last week. I noticed this when rewatching last weeks episode:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Lost.S06E04.redlight.35.22.png

Its a red light behind the rock along with some pipes. Most likely just a production error, but...
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Lost.S06E04.redlight.35.22.png

[Chip]

Ah, good catch, Rene. Interestingly, Wallace's name is scratched out, which would seem to imply he's dead...

[Monahan]

Maybe it's Marcellus Wallace from Pulp Fiction?

[Griggs]

I liked last night's episode.

I like Jack.

I like that he broke the mirror. It screws them up and would have helped them if he'd left it intact. But, he broke it and now they have to deal with it. Good.

I wasn't terribly interested in his sideway story, but I liked his and Hurley's adventure.

I also liked the action with Claire and Jin. Man, Claire is messed up.

Still waiting for Desmond and Faraday.

[pinoy3D]

I sort of believe in Smocke. He's doing such a good job convincing us that Jacob is the bad guy. That, and Jacob kind of looks like a dick. His response of "What about you?" to Ben, his vagueness to everyone, all those names that he allegedly wrote down and crossed off.

here's a list of names and numbers from the wheel.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

Not all of the names that have been crossed off are deceased.

[Monkey Girl]

Jump here http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/71e26d4dd6a95fd69b7221bcc63f4aba to see a screen grab of the lighthouse numbers. Kate is on there. We didn't get to see her name in the caves, but she's here on the wheel, not crossed out.

#51 - Austen.

[pH Productions]

That's weird that Kate's number isn't one of The Numbers. All the other Lostie candidates are. Poor Kate.

[Chip]

I'm not sure what to think about last night's episode.

Some significant stuff happened, that's for sure! But I think my impression was tained by last week's teaser that "questions would be answered". I have no idea what questions they were talking about, because I sure didn't see any answers. Unless it was "will Smocke lay waste to the others?"

As for the Sayid flash-sideways, I guess he's just a killer in every timeline? Every time he tries to get out, they keep pulling him back in!

Claire seemed pretty well-adjusted. I have no idea why Kate doesn't give her more information about her baby, like "I left her with your mother in LA".

Also, what was with that song that was playing I forget the title, but I think it's a song that British kids sing in school or something) while the camera panned across the dead Others at the temple?

Discuss.

[moon_shoes]

I really liked this episode a lot, mainly due to the kick ass fight scene up front and the massively destructive ending.

Claire's song supports my wacky theory as Lost as a whole.

My feelings on this show right now are very close to this:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/sundown,38752/
(my thoughts are at the bottom under the "flashbackin'" section)

[Leslieface]

All I know is, Sayid is pretty crazy. Giving the Smocke-like evil grin and scaring away Ben.
I don't want Ben to die next week. is that weird?

I was creeped out at the end with the song and the dead people, and feel sorry for Kate who didn't CHOOSE to be with Smocke but is still with them. Which now I think its up to her to be the "In" for the good guys....
or Are they the good guys?

[BlackDog]

...and feel sorry for Kate who didn't CHOOSE to be with Smocke but is still with them. Which now I think its up to her to be the "In" for the good guys....
or Are they the good guys?

Did you guys catch the dirty look of surprise/bemusement that "Locke" gave Kate when she stepped from the temple? I think that explains why her number isn't one of the numbers. Meaning, her survival was an oversight on "Locke"/Smokey's part.

[sammy]

I've been following other Lost threads on other boards and someone who's been rewatching season three posted some fun theories:

1) The island is a prison for the Smoke Monster. The button in the hatch was connected to the prison - the electromagnetic power source that kept him island bound. Smokey showed Locke the hatch to make him go in and drive Desmond away, but Locke became convinced to press the button himself. S Smokey told Eko to find the question mark with Locke - the observation station for the Dharma stations. Locke stopped believing, but Eko became a believer instead, frustrating Locke. Eventually John was so frustrated he locked himself with the button and didn't press it, releasing smokey, but Desmond turned the key, which invoked Jacob (the bright light), who blew up the hatch (cauterizing the leak) and kept Smokey trapped. And enraged Smokey killed Eko soon after as it was his fault his plan backfired.

2) The candidate isn't necessarily a replacement for Jacob. They're just a candidate for something. Jacob can't be replaced as he's the same type of creature as smokey (the beautiful light Locke saw in Season 1). And there's no reason why anyone would need to replace smokey either. We just jumped to that conclusion. The candidate simply has a job to do, and Jacob is identifying who's the right person for this job. He thinks it's Jack I believe.

3) The names on the cave and lighthouse are family names, not specific names. I believe this was done for a reason. Almost every flashback has to do with parents - this is the overriding theme, the shit our parents deal to us. I think the names on the wheel refer to a common group of ancestors to each of the current characters - perhaps the original island inhabitants, or crew of the Black Rock. I think this common bond is why Jack and co now find themselves on the island.and he further refined his ideas after seeing more of season 3

1) There are definitely 2 monsters and Jacob is definately the white light. In the middle of season 3 kate and Juliet are handcuffed together and have an awesome cat fight before they're attacked by smokey. As smokey moves in for the kill a bright light flashes that drives it away. I think this was Jacob protecting the ladies.

2) Claire was captured to see how women could have a baby on the island. This was the most important thing to Jacob. Clearly the candidate will have to have babies themselves (the only reason why Jacob would care) and perhaps their family line becomes custodians of the island. This supports my idea that the names in the lighthouse were family names. I also think the candidate will go back in time become the original caretaker of the island (though I can't verify this idea yet).

3) Desmond was rescued by Jacob when the hatch imploded and he absorbed some of his powers. Hence why he could travel through time and how he could see Charlies death before it happened. Desmond becomes a demi-Jacob as it were, and that's why it's him on the plane at the start of series 6 with Jack. He ends up doing the things Jacob does and learns to control his power.

[pinoy3D]

OMG!! Ben Linus has to be one of the best characters ever written for television. Michael Emerson is a genius!

[Monahan]

Well, it appears that the candidates are indeed potential replacements for Jacob.

I love Miles with the diamonds, and the return of Widmore.

So much great stuff in this episode. We're really moving now.

Also, Richard is clearly one of the Black Rock crew members ("Have you been here before?" "Yes, but in all this time, this is the first time I've been back.")

[Gass]

Not crew...slave on the black rock. Notice how he was looking at the chains.

[Chip]

Props to Michael Emerson for creating a character I can feel sympathy for and pity even after everything he's done.

[Leslieface]

Props to Michael Emerson for creating a character I can feel sympathy for and pity even after everything he's done.

AAAAAH YES. Seriously. I love to hate him, I love to root for him, I love to love him. He is magnificent.
I'm so glad he choose the Jacob people. Who I want to say are the "good guys", but I dunno. I just can't decide.

[HeatherConnelly]

Not crew...slave on the black rock. Notice how he was looking at the chains.

Maybe he mutinied? That Black Rock ledger by the first mate always seemed to feel like it should have been Richard. Or maybe the Black Rock was captured by pirates!

I was relieved when Richard didn't die because I was all "oh, goodie, we still have the possibility of an Alpert flashback". But then I remembered that we're not doing flashbacks anymore...

[pinoy3D]

I wonder if it was a coincidence that Richard and Jack look almost exactly alike, right down to the bruises on their faces. It seems like both are desperately searching for the same answers from Jacob. Maybe they both share the same fate.

[sammy]

One of the theories I like bouncing around about the Sideways Universe is that we're actually seeing the epilogue of the show. Anyone who sides with Jacob gets a happy ending (Jack and his son, Ben and Alex, Hurley as happy millionaire, Locke gets his dad and the girl, etc) and anyone who rolls with the Man in Black gets a "gotcha" ending (Sayid has Nadia in his life but she's married to his brother, Kate is free but still a fugitive, etc).

[Monahan]

I was relieved when Richard didn't die because I was all "oh, goodie, we still have the possibility of an Alpert flashback". But then I remembered that we're not doing flashbacks anymore...

Maybe we'll get a Sideways Alpert episode, where half the episode is a static shot of decomposed remains.

[Munz]

I've thought the same thing Sammy. I have a feeling this isn't the last time we'll see Ben and Alex (any chance for a Danielle appearance?!), and Ben will continue his redemption epilogue. I'm just scared that soon we'll see a main character die, and he/she will thereby die in their flash-sideways... Then we'll all truly be LOST. Either way, in complete contrast, $10 says Jack becomes the new Jacob and lets everyone else leave after the "war".

[Chip]

I've been thinking about the sideways flashes being an epilogue, myself. As in, the island events complete, and the result is the sideways flashes.

However, if one of the 6 is going to be the new Jacob, I wonder if they get an epilogue, as they probably have to stay on the island. Who does that leave? Jin, Sun, Sawyer, Claire? (I'm counting Claire as a Shepherd)

[HeatherConnelly]

(any chance for a Danielle appearance?!)

How does a French scientist wind up in LA working two jobs?

I tell ya what would have been super cute is if Alex had had a French accent.

[pinoy3D]

How does Tina Fey find time to be on LOST?

[timalimdim]

So, Miles and Sawyer are Riggs and Murtaugh in sideways-world? Nice. I thought that brought a cheesesque feel to parts of the episode. That feeling was underscored when James said something like "I could either become a criminal or become a cop."

Oh.

So, in this world, you chose the other thing. Got it.

Also, there was a tossed-away line from Sawyer in the jungle (maybe to Kate?): "God's got nothing to do with it."

Was this a legitimate throwaway? Or were the writers dropping hints about what isn't at the heart of the whole mystery?

Because the whole dark/light thing sure feels like they might be trying to make the island Hell. Or Purgatory. Or even heaven, for that matter. And, as lots of folks might see that as a cop-out, maybe they wedged in a line to lay those fears to rest?

Not a bad episode, all-around.

[VinRigan]

Just a throwaway thought I've had, the more this goes on. Smocke is Satan, or some equivalent. The island isn't hell, but it's an earthly prison. Jacob, of course, would be the angel (Gabriel?) who was meant to keep him from being let loose on the world. The people (or rather, their families) who are on the lighthouse wheel are, I dunno, families of someone important in history (like Jesus?), and each time they get killed off, it makes it that much easier for Smocke to get powerful.


Something like that. I'm not sure who it is that's calling them to the island, if it's Jacob (to help him fight Smocke, or become his replacement- maybe he wants to be set free, too?), or if it's Smocke (to trick them into killing Jacob, because only one of the people on the wheel can kill him).

Ack. I thought I had a nugget of something there, but it's not completely playing out. Probably has nothing to do with any of that.


Oh, and the fact that the electronic pylons and the electromagnetic thing can seem to hold Smocke at bay lends to this not being a supernatural phenomenon.


Or I'm just full of shit.

[Chip]

Sammy, so if your discovered theory holds, it would seem that Sawyer is going to eventually turn on Smocke, because Sawyer is having a decent life as a cop. Although he still seems hung up on Sawyer - the con man who grifted his dad.

Also puts an interesting spin on Sawyer, knowing he is a cop, but choosing not to turn in Kate in the elevator at the airport, but eventually being the one who catches her after she hits his car.

Can't wait for next week's episode and Richard's story!

[BlackDog]

Sorry if this was asked already....

When Sawyer and leathery tina fey were about to board the canoe, leathery tina fey gave a tell [going to guam to see her boyfriend] and Sawyer picked up on it and drew his gun.

Why was that a tell? Can someone explain? Is it that unfathomable that she would have a boyfriend? Or that Guam dudes would like older tina fey types?

[Chip]

Good question, I'd wondered about that as well but forgot about it. Sammy? What do the boards say about this?
-Chip

[pinoy3D]

What's the deal with Jacob and Smocke's touch? He grabbed Sawyer's hand when he saved him from the falling ladder, I don't remember if he shook hands with Sayid, and when he reached out to Kate, there seemed to be an emphasis of her refusal to touch him.

[moon_shoes]

Miles's dad is still alive yay!!!!

[Leslieface]

Thought you all would get a kick out of this! :D

Never Seen Lost Blog with full episode recaps (http://neverseenlost.wordpress.com)

[sammy]

It's the Hellmouth.

[Monahan]

It's the Hellmouth.

But there's only one big bad, and he can't escape, and we don't know who the slayer is, but giles has been stabbed, and the rest of the scoobie gang has many more issues.

[sammy]

But there's only one big bad, and he can't escape, and we don't know who the slayer is, but giles has been stabbed, and the rest of the scoobie gang has many more issues.

I'd watch that.

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[Griggs]

I thought last night's episode was the best of the season. In fact, I thought it was right up there as one of the better episodes of the entire series.

I was pretty "iffy" about this entire season because it just seemed to be spiraling aimlessly, but that bottle analogy from Jacob centered everything, I thought.

I also thought it was pretty great because it answered more questions than it asked.

1. We know how the statue was smashed (we still don't know why it was there).

2. We know that people are brought to the island to play out a "morality game" between Smocke and Jacob. And, they all have free will.

3. The Black Rock ship ended up there the same way that Oceanic 815 ended there. It was wrecked there by Jacob to take part in the game. That's why the heroin plane ended there as well as Rousseau's boat.

4. We know why Richard doesn't age and why he's there on the island. We also know why he went to the Black Rock to kill himself.

5. We know they're not in hell.

However, we still don't know why Richard looks like he's wearing eyeliner.

[Monahan]

However, we still don't know why Richard looks like he's wearing eyeliner.

Actually, we do know that. It's because that's what Nestor Carbonell's eyes look like in real life.

And I agree. That episode was fantastic.

[Leslieface]

I just loved how some of the dialogue was reused in this episode but used by different people.
LIke the one line "Don't let him speak to you.." was used by the Man in Black to Richard. But also used by the Japanese guy to Sayid. Two different people on two different sides said the same line!
LOVED this episode. Loved it.

[pinoy3D]

I like the analogy with the wine bottle. Keeping Smocke on the island so he can't release his evil onto the world. Which makes pushing the button in the Swan Station make more sense. I think not pushing the button would have only destroyed to island, thus releasing Smocke onto the world.

I just don't like how Jacob says that he can't make the people he brings to the island do anything, can't (or won't) help them in any way, resulting in their deaths. But he forced these people to go to the island.

[Monahan]

I just don't like how Jacob says that he can't make the people he brings to the island do anything, can't (or won't) help them in any way, resulting in their deaths. But he forced these people to go to the island.

Well, I think if you're testing people to see if they make "good" decisions, the last thing you want to do is tell them you're judging their decisions... it skews the results.

[sammy]

Upcoming episode titles and who it "features" (if known) -- No major spoilers in my opinion...but if you want to skip past this, go right ahead...






"The Package"
Sun & Jin

"Happily Ever After"
Desmond

"Everybody Loves Hugo"
Hurley

"The Last Recruit"

"The Candidate"

"Across the Sea"
Jacob & Man in Black

"What They Died For"

"The End"

[nichbob]

Thoughts on last night? I typically don't know how to feel about an episode until Louie or the guy from entertainment weekly tells me how I should.

The co-worker I discuss the show with is growing increasingly fearful that the show will not wrap-up in a satisfactory manner...with that in mind, I would love to hear what y'all would find to be a great way for the show to end. How/will the sideways and island World come together? Will one or multiple main characters die? Will it end with Cleavon Little on horseback chasing Harvey Korman in a cab after spilling over onto the set of Modern Family?

[Chip]

I am also wanting to have a good reason to care about the flash sideways. I did think it was cool to see how Jin ended up in the restaurant where Sayid freed him. I saw Sun getting shot a mile away.

I thought it was a curious twist to have Sun not able to speak English but to understand it. Is there a purpose to that or will it just be some odd thing that happened?

So we learned that the only way that SMocke gets off the island is if all the candidates go with him. With the way that he talked about Kate being scratched off the list, it seems clear that dying isn't the only way to be removed. I wonder what gets you removed from the list. Have any of the remaining candidates ever killed anyone on the island?

Not sure what Widmore is up to with Desmond "The Package" Hume. He clearly doesn't like SMocke, but that doesn't make him good either.

In the context of last week's episode and the general theme of Jacob bringing people to the island to prove MiB wrong about humanity, do you think that this iteration with our Losties is just another iteration or will it bring about the end to the island summonings?

-Chip

[pinoy3D]

I think just like Jacob needs a someone to take his place, so does Smocke. I would guess that would be Sayid.

[Chip]

Also, I noticed that we don't often know a flat-out lie when it's told, but there was one last night. When Smocke asks for Jin, Widmore pretty blatantly says he doesn't have him, when we already know that Jin was captured by Widmore's people. At least with Ben's lies, we were never quite sure what was truth and what wasn't.

Also, on another topic, I think it was interesting what Sayid said about the fact that he doesn't feel anything - good or bad. Is this an effect of the weird resurrection? I don't think it's the infection, because Claire clearly feels anger and she is infected. So what else could it be? Unless it's only temporary and Claire has passed through that stage of the infection. Also also, I thought it was interesting that Smocke basically told Claire that once he was done with Kate, then Claire could kill her if she wanted. "Whatever happens, happens." Again with the re-using of previous lines.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Okay, this is just speculation, and I might be completely wrong. It makes a weird kind of sense the more I think about it. We'll find out tonight if I'm right.

Tonight's TV listings say this about tonight's episode:

"Desmond wakes up and realizes he is back on the island."

Sounds pretty innocuous. Then it occurred to me... the only other time we saw Desmond this season is when he was sitting on the plane next to Jack in the sideways alternate timeline. He disappeared from the plane, and we never saw him again.

What if... Desmond jumped from one timeline to the other? It would explain his disappearance. Maybe tonight's episode will finally shed some light on the whole alternate timeline subplot we've been seeing all season long.

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Meh. Oh, well. I thought it was a decent theory.

[Chip]

Desmond does seem to be some sort of conduit between the two realities, though.

And yay for a Daniel sighting! :)

Question, the limo driver, George...was he someone from the original timeline? A Dharma worker perhaps? I can't recall.

[sammy]

He was the guy on the boat who died because he didn't have a constant.

[Monahan]

A couple weeks ago I mentioned to my wife how we hadn't seen Desmond yet, and she said they likely had to get the sideways timeline firmly established before re-introducing him, because he's the Constant... and probably the key to merging the timelines.

I told her to make me pancakes.

I'm still waiting for the pancakes.

[briana]

Read "How ABC’s “LOST” and modern politics explain each other" at The Snoopy Digest
www.breeohnnah.wordpress.com

It's all so clear and simple.

[sammy]

http://www.sl-lost.com/images/83275597.jpg

[moon_shoes]

Thoughts? Reactions?

There were some groaner moments to this episode. However there were enough highlights, and revelations to keep me excited.

1) Isabelle being blown up made my gasp and laugh simultaneously. Love that black rock dynamite!

2) Richard "Did Jacob tell you what the Island is?" I love the possibility that the island mystery will be summed up in a word or two.

3) Desmond! No! I bet he's fine though. If he actually died then they would have done a slow motion fall with orchestra music.

[VinRigan]

1) Isabelle being blown up made my gasp and laugh simultaneously. Love that black rock dynamite!

I laughed my ass off at this. I never really grew to know or like her character, and it was really funny to me. I was almost thinking that Richard could handle the dynamite all he wants, and it wouldn't go off (Jack, too, actually, which makes no sense- does Jacob still have power on the island?)

2) Richard "Did Jacob tell you what the Island is?" I love the possibility that the island mystery will be summed up in a word or two.

No, he was asking about the cork in the wine bottle thing, which would be Richard's way of proving it was the real Jacob and not just Hurley.

3) Desmond! No! I bet he's fine though. If he actually died then they would have done a slow motion fall with orchestra music.

No way is Desmond dead- he's way too important. Alt universe Locke, though, maybe. I think the two worlds are all linked up so that, if he can kill off Locke in the alternate universe, it might have an effect on Smocke. Something like that.

Oh, yeah- does anyone else see any significance in the fact that the Black Rock is named such? You know, like the black and white stones in the scales in the cave, and in the painting in Alt Universe's Whitmore?

I dunno. I'm not sure how they're going to satisfactorily sum much up in the last few episodes, though I did like Michael confirming that the voices were the spirits who couldn't move on. So, for them, this is purgatory.


Oh, and that kid that keeps kinda taunting Smocke- I think that's Jacob. Not sure how/why, but that's the feeling I get.

[Chip]

My guess about Desmond running Locke down with the car is so he'll go to the hospital and see Jack, who will fix him and make him walk.

When whats-her-face blew up, I thought to myself "She got Arzt-ed!"

Also, nice to see Libby again. :)

[MSutton]

I also enjoyed the throw away Hurley line to his mom that their next charity event was for the "Human Fund". That's the fake charity that George Costanza came up with on Seinfeld to avoid giving out Christmas gifts.

[mark logdog]

I also enjoyed the throw away Hurley line to his mom that their next charity event was for the "Human Fund". That's the fake charity that George Costanza came up with on Seinfeld to avoid giving out Christmas gifts.

I totally noticed that!

I wondered if it was a nod to Larry David because I'm pretty sure the Lost producers discovered the actor who plays Hurley when he appeared on an episode of Curb.

[pinoy3D]

I had to look away as soon as I saw Ilana handle that dynamite and when I saw Desmond approach the well with Flocke. Saw that shit comin'! And LOST keeps it coming with the unheroic demise of important characters, ala Danielle Rousseau, or suspected important characters, anyone remember Caesar? But I was hoping to see Ilana's backstory. I thought she would be Hurly's blind date. How did Jacob choose her? Why was she in the bandages? Even Dogen showed up on a flash-sideways. Maybe there's still time. As for Desmond, he is alive in next week's preview, just stuck in the well.

On LOST scheduling note, after the next weeks episode, they will rerun Ab Aeterno the following week. Which sucks and makes no senses to break up the momentum of the last season. As for the Season Finale, they are dedicating 5 hours to LOST. 2 hour pre-show/recap, 2 hour finale, and 1 hour Jimmy Kimmel LOST special. Again, kind of sucks. I'm sure the 2 hour finale will be chalk full of commercials, so do we really need a 2 hour recap? I'd rather have a 1hr recap instead of a rerun, then another 1 hour recap and 3 hour finale.

[nichbob]

Last night was not on par with a few of the better ones this season, but I think it lays the groundwork for the final act as we hit the home stretch.

A buddy of mine speculated that Smocke is inhabiting Locke in the sideways World, based upon Sun's freaking out at the hospital. I don't buy it, I think she was having her "clarity/crossover" moment and thought locke was the latest island incarnation that she knew as smocke.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but in episode 1 Jack tells the story of the surgery he botched as a young surgeon when the person's Dural Sac exploded or tore or whatever. heading into surgery for Locke he mentioned that, "his dural sac is a mess/destroyed..." something like that. I love it. Will Jack have his 5 seconds of fear during surgery thus triggering his clarity/crossover moment to both worlds?

Finally, can't possibly imagine that Sayid shot Desmond.

[Chip]

Well, two of my predictions come true in one episode...

Smocke is the cause of the other dead people seen on the island (not talking about the ones that only Hurley sees, but the ones like Christian).

And Desmond hit Locke so Jack would have to perform surgery on him. Alright, we don't know that Desmond did it purposefully for that reason, but still, cool.

I agree that this episode was kind of weird as its own entity, but I agree that I think it's the setup for the last few.

1) Jack escaped capture by Widmore by leaving the boat.

2) Desmond ain't dead or they'd have shown it.

3) Connections happening rampantly now in sideways world.

Also, how big a moment is it that Sun and Jin are now together? They've been separated since the season 3 finale! I almost didn't notice that Sun had started talking in English again.

I had to watch this on Hulu, so I haven't seen the trailer for next week yet, so it'll be a surprise next Tuesday, I guess.

Also, on a slight tangent, I'm doing the Zombie Pub Crawl on Saturday, and I'm going as Zombie Roger Workman. :)

[pinoy3D]

Unfortunately, next week is a rerun of Ab Aeterno

[pinoy3D]

unfortunately, next week is a rerun of Abe Aeterno.

[Chip]

unfortunately, next week is a rerun of Abe Aeterno.

I was watching ESPN this week and there was a quick spot that said:

Lost - Tuesday 9/8 Central, All New

So maybe it is new?

[Monahan]

According to my TiVo, tomorrow is definitely a rerun. Next new episode is 5/4.

[Chip]

Darn, I was hoping against hope.

BTW,

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y353/cchhiipp/workman.jpg

[Griggs]

Does anyone else think that Desmond is now Jacob?

He seems to be traveling around doing all the things that Jacob used to do.

[Leslieface]

does anyone else think that desmond is now jacob?

He seems to be traveling around doing all the things that jacob used to do.

my brain exploded.

[man.D.ble]

found this and thought you Lost Boys and Girls would enjoy it.

[Monahan]

Ha! As drawn, Charlie is the tallest, and Sawyer looks like Ookla from Thundarr the Barbarian.

[Chip]

Eko over Sun? Or Claire?

[Monahan]

I loved tonight's episode. Felt like classic Lost writing, complete with manufactured-yet-natural-seeming catharsis.

I'm looking forward to the final 4 hours.

[Chip]

At least we know that Sayid didn't turn bad. So that calls into question if the Others/Logen knew WTF they were talking about.

Remind me where Ben is? Is he with Richard and Miles? Where are they?

All I could think about with Jin and Sun in the sub is their kid. I guess they're letting someone else raise him. Of course, Jin wasn't going to leave her, but still.

I loved the final scene with them on the beach at night, just exhausted and grieving over their friends who just died. Very poignant.

-Chip

[pinoy3D]

Charlie vs Sun and Jin. Which scene is more sad?

Both deaths so similar, ending in Hurley breaking down at the end.

And what happened to Lapedus?

[Steev]

Booo!

I was expecting massive carnage. This death is a set-up, so they can surprise us with a happy ending in the finale.

[Chip]

How massive were you expecting, Steve? Sayid, Sun, Jin, and Lapidus is a lot of main characters in a short stretch.

[Gass]

I really thought that this was a great episode.

[Brybeck01]

I don't think Lapidus is dead. It didn't show much.

and they need someone to fly that plane

AND. it's 4.5 hours left. woot

Sun and Jin dying was dumb. the explosion made metal wrap around her? and just her? Wha!? and then on top of the metal wrapping, she had that giant metal thing shoved perfectly against her?

Anyone think all but one person will die? And that person will be the new Jacob?

Looking forward to fidning out what Ben, Miles, Desmond, and Richard are up to.

[Monahan]

I don't think Lapidus is dead. It didn't show much.

and they need someone to fly that plane

Well that depends on if the timelines merge and what happens when that merge takes place... remember, we just found out that Locke has his pilot's license in the sideways world...

[Maphon]

Have you noticed that most of the dead character know something is going on in the Flash Sideways? All of them were dead before that timeline was created(presumably). Jin, Sun, and Sayid all died last week. We know that they had no clue of what was going on in the Flash Sideways. I suspect that their consciousness' will merge with their live counterparts in Flash Sideways, and the merge will be well on its way.

[Dave Ries]

I am happy that this series is almost over.

[VinRigan]

Okay, that slightly explains things. Thanks, Lost, for just barely making sense- you never disappoint. I still don't like Mother basically saying, "see, it's magic!" about every damn thing. "I've made it so you can never hurt each other." "No matter what anyone tells you, you can never leave the island." What? Why? How?

I hate the mystical crap, especially when we've seen so much more "science"-ish going on the show. Oh, and per io9.com, Allison Janney was supposed to be "Mother Earth". So. Yeah. Not sure what the hell that's supposed to be about. This show's starting to get a bit on my nerves, and I'm glad it's almost over.

[Chip]

Question about the chronology.

Remember the first time we see Jacob and Esau on the beach and Esau says he wants to kill Jacob?

Where does that fit in the chronology of what we saw last night? Was that before Jacob threw him in the light tunnel or after?

What I'm getting at is: have we seen Esau as Esau since he was thrown down the light hole? Trying to place that first beach conversation in context with the events of last night's episode.

[Johnny]

We saw Esau as Esau and as the smoke monster in the Richard Alpert back story. So if im not mistaken this whole episode takes place before anything we've seen.

[sammy]

Am I the only one who didn't care for Allison Janney's (sp) acting?

Anyways, found on a forum:

"Like many of you, I was disappointed about tonight's episode. Then this theory popped into my head that made me appreciate the episode so much more...

Jacob and MIB's "mother" spent the whole episode building up to her replacement. Were lead to think she has chosen Jacob to replace her duties of protecting the island. But what if she actually chose MIB to replace her job as...wait for it...THE SMOKE MONSTER! The whole episode is about her manipulation on Jacob that eventually leads him to throw his brother into the light which turns him into the new smoke monster.

She left the game on the beach to start a rivalry between the two boys. She used her "smokey" powers to appear as MIB's real mother and guide him to the others. She saw that MIB had all the qualities to be the evil smoke monster (able to lie.. ect.). What kind of woman beats a pregnant woman with a rock and steals her babies? an evil woman! a smoke monster! How did she ruin the camp and destroy the well in such a short amount of time...well, if she turned into smokey then poof! easy! She told Jacob the light was a fate worse than death. hmm..sounds like she knows from experience! She knew MIB would kill her, so she showed Jacob exactly how to get his revenge on MIB, throw him into the light! Which made MIB her replacement, which was the plan all along! Jacob was only a pawn! And just like the surprise dagger in the back ultimately killed her, you may recall Dogen giving Sayid the dagger to go kill fake locke, but he didn't manage to catch him off guard."

[Chip]

Holy fucknuts, of course!

So, assuming that the Losties defeat Smocke, will someone take his place? (They'd have to be dumped down the magic flume, I guess). Jack versus Sawyer for eternity, maybe?

It makes me wonder who/what was her "good" counterpart before Jacob.

[Chip]

Can someone remind me the order of events? Is it this:

Mom destroys diggers
Esau kills mom
Jacob beats up Esau
Jacob dumps Esau down hole
Smoke monster comes out
Jacob finds Esau's body and places him and Mom in the Adam & Eve cave

[nichbob]

Sammy - thanks for posting...this seems to be a consensus in many online episode recaps I'm reading, or at least agreement that she was manipulating the situation from day one. here is a very interesting observation by our friend Doc Jensen at Entertainment Weekly that supports what you posted:

"After conferring her guardian powers upon Jacob, Mother went back to camp. She found it trashed. She silently surveyed the scene and found something peculiar — MIB's Senet box. She opened it up and took out the black stone. She looked at it — and then MIB stabbed her in the back and through the chest. She fell to the ground and whispered a word: ''Nothing.''

"She told her son that she couldn't let him leave because she loved him, and then she thanked him for killing her and died. Three things: 1. Notice I used the word ''silently.'' 2. Notice that Mother said ''Nothing.'' 3. Notice that MIB used the same knife to kill his mother that Dogen gave Sayid to kill MIB/Fake Locke. Remember Dogen's instructions? Sayid had to plunge the knife into The Monster's chest before The Monster said a word. Sayid failed to execute the execution before Fake Locke said, ''Hello,''

[Dave Ries]

First, why do people keep referring to the Man In Black as "Esau"? A name has never been said or verified on any of the episodes. Quit confusing me. Theories don't make it so unless the show says so.

Second. The theories of fake mom being a smoke monster hold a lot of ground. Cain't no older woman take out a whole camp and fill in a well in a few hours time.

Third. I still can't wait until Sunday, May 23rd, at approximately 10pm.

[Leslieface]

This whole Mother=Smoke Monster makes me like the episode a whole bunch more.


Also did you guys hear about them adding on 30 minutes to the finale? And having the cast on Jimmy Kimmel where he will be showing 3 alternate endings!?!?!!?

anyhoo...

[pinoy3D]

Where will you all be watching the finale? The finale, which has taken 6 significant years of life, is an event that I would like to share with an audience of LOSTIES. I'll probably shed a tear at the end, and I don't care who sees.

[Griggs]

I really hated this weeks episode. It seemed so contrived and at points, silly.

The light? This has all been about the light? Really?!

I love this show, but I don't think there's any way they're going to wrap this thing up for anyone's satisfaction.

[Steev]

I really hated this weeks episode. It seemed so contrived and at points, silly.

The light? This has all been about the light? Really?!

I love this show, but I don't think there's any way they're going to wrap this thing up for anyone's satisfaction.

Agreed on the episode part.

It answered questions, but in stupid ways.

Q: Why is the smoke monster the smoke monster?
A: Because he got pushed into a pool filled with magic light.

Q: Why can't MiB hurt Jacob?
A: Because their mom said, "there, I made it so you can't hurt each other."

I also thought the Adam & Eve reveal was dumb and insignificant. Who cares?

But most important, I want to draw a cat for you. http://iwanttodrawacatforyou.com.

[No! It's a Spaceship!]

I really hated this weeks episode. It seemed so contrived and at points, silly.


I've been really into Lost after forgiving it for seasons 2 and 3, but that episode really took a lot of excitement away. I think what really got me was their need to show that flashback/forward at the end, just in case you forgot about something people have been speculating on for weeks.

[nichbob]

Yeah, the pool/cave of light was, just felt like a let down...but it seems we kind of already knew about it, right? We knew there was this power on the island, this thing Ben always accused Widmore of wanting to get his hands on, and we knew about the evil/darkness it held after the wine bottle and cork explanation...so I guess it didn't really explain anything except the origin of the smoke monster, we already knew what the island was. Also, I would love to hear what people would have found surprising and satisfying in terms of an alternative the the light cave. I think the general cheesiness of the visual and frankly Alison Janney's performance made it hard to like.



Q: Why can't MiB hurt Jacob?
A: Because their mom said, "there, I made it so you can't hurt each other."


If we view this through the Mom was Smoke trying to set herself free theory, then who cares what she said because it quite possibly was manipulative bullshit and not a real answer...i mean, didn't we see Jacob and MiB beat the piss out of each other and Jacob toss MiB down a bright hole in the ground? They can hurt each other, she was lying. Thematically seems to fit into the free-will vs. fate/predestination thing that is a large part of the show...Desmond spoke to it in the well and convinced Sayid he still had the chance to make a choice to be something different and not what he let other people tell him he was.

I too cannot wait for the finale, anything left open for interpretation will simply allow us to continue talking about it long after the show is gone.

[VinRigan]

I can't remember if it was in the Doc Jensen post on Entertainment Weekly, or on a Television Without Pity forum posting, but someone mentioned the "rules" thing being really important. Like, if you're the guardian of the island, you get to make up the rules. The Man/kid in Black saying, "well, someday you'll get your own game, and you can make up all the rules" seems to be important. I mean, everything is really fucking arbitrary, which I think is inane, but if Jacob is, as guardian, making up all the rules, which Smokey must follow, then it's just a game. Maybe the game is how he keeps Smokey from just leaving the damn island- he appeals to the part of his brother that's still within Smokey's personality. It seems like Locke's personality kinda is part of the Smokey character now, so maybe that's part of the game.


It's all just one big freakin' cosmic game.

[sammy]

Be careful with spoilers--next week's ep has already aired as a part of a special event, so they're floating out there.

From AICN:

"
5. 'What They Died For' starts! Not sure I want to be "that guy" who spoils the episode, so I won't be. There are summaries out there already, so if you really want to ruin the show for yourself, there are other means. What I will say is that, yes, it was amazing. This coming from a fan that is not afraid to be critical of the show (I had large critiques for 'Across The Sea', for example). I felt that the pace has remained consistent for the last half of the season, and things really picked up in 'The Last Recruit'. This episode REALLY takes it to the next level. Motives are revealed and elaborated. People die. People change sides. People take jobs. People escape. And heavy answers are revealed and discussed. 9.5/10"

[pinoy3D]

I can't believe the finale is this Sunday. Did anyone catch Sawyer refer to Locke as Flocke? Was that the first time anyone has referred to Locke by a nickname?

If you're interested, the Brew & View at The Vic is showing LOST Series Finale! Drink beer and watch it on the big screen. Admission is free, $3.00 Lite & High Life Drafts.

[nichbob]

incredible entertaining episode that I think sets up the finale really well.

I'm sure there will be all sorts of mixed opinions and theories on the island happenings...but I expect a consensus on the sideways world: desmond, fuck yeah!

[Chip]

OK, all season I haven't cared much about what happens in sideways-land, and now I'm as intrigued about that as I am the events on the island.

Specifically, SMocke said he's going to destroy the island. The one place we know where the island is destroyed is in sideways-land, when we saw the island underwater at the beginning of the season. So, is sideways-land what happens if/when SMocke wins? And if that's the case, is sideways-Desmond carrying out the failsafe that Widmore talked about?

To rephrase - On the island, let's say SMocke is going to win/escape/sink the island. At that point, Sideways-land merges with island time, making one reality. And it turns out that what we've been seeing all season in sideways-land is what happens after SMocke destroys the island. And Desmond is trying to reunite the Oceanic people to somehow stop SMocke from being able to dstroy humanity.

The counter-argument to this is that there really hasn't been any hint of SMocke in sideways-land, or really of any widespread bad mojo. So I am not sure I'm right. But I do think there's significance to the fact that SMocke wants to sink the island and sideways-land's island is sunk. And I do think that sideways-Desmond's dealings are the failsafe that Widmore is referring to.

[Monkey Girl]

And what is Ben's deal?! Is he going to The Dark Side (again)? Does he have alterior/good motives? He got uber creepy again!

[Chip]

Something I was reminded of just now - Just before Michael dies on the freighter in the explosion, Christian appears before him and tells him it's ok.

If the Smoke Monster has indeed been Christian the whole time, then the Smoke Monster can travel over water - the only way for him to have gotten to the freighter.

[pinoy3D]

Parts 1, 5, and 6 are hilarious.

Part 1
http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html?bcpid=75281507001&bclid=64100614001&bctid=86386095001

Part 5 (funniest one)
http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html?bcpid=75281507001&bclid=64100614001&bctid=86386092001

Part 6
http://www.ew.com/ew/video/0,,20313460_20313475,00.html?bcpid=75281507001&bclid=64100614001&bctid=86386036001

[VinRigan]

Anyone else disappointed as hell at the ending? I wanted some questions about what the fuck the island was to be answered. Seemed like, once Hugo was in charge (knew it!), there might have been something, since he's been a bit of an audience surrogate character for most of the show. But... no...

Also, the flash sideways- okay, so, this is some limbo place everyone goes to when they die, or something? And everyone has to meet here before they can move on...? So, let's pretend I accept that (which I think is inane, and a waste of half a season, frankly). Why, then, is *so* important for everyone to "let go" all at the same time? It seemed like Desmond was working so hard to get everyone to reach their epiphany about the "real world" at around the same time- I thought it was building to something really important, maybe crossing over to the "real world" for some purpose. Nope, just building to everyone having a reunion in the church, before they move on to... I dunno, heaven? So, if time has no meaning there (remember, some of these folks died before Jack, some after...), then why does everyone have to get together at the same time? Why is time of the essence? Makes no sense.

Also, I was waiting for some sort of *something* to explain the damn island. That was the ultimate question I'd waited to hear an answer to for 6 freakin' seasons. What's up with the mystical crap and the Dharma folks being able to get in and out of the island? What was Whitmore's story?

Why, suddenly, is Flocke mortal? Was that the light being put out, or Desmond fulfilling his "failsafe" duty? Are the "rules" thrown out the window? Does the ruler of the island get to make new rules? How the hell does that all work?

Come on, Lost. You owed us answers, and you phoned it in. We all expected every single thing you gave us- everyone would meet their "constant", Jack would sacrifice himself, Flocke would be killed. They why's and wherefores were what we wanted to know, and you denied us all of that. Not a single piece of the puzzle was explained.

"He's not ready yet."
"I've made it so you can never hurt each other."
"One day, you can make up your own game, and you can make the rules."
"There is a light at the heart of the island. Men can try to take it, and if they do, they'll put it out forever. If it goes out here, it goes out everywhere."



What?


Fuck you, Lost. Fuck. You.




What other questions Lost kept completely unanswered?

[sether]

Well, I really liked the finale. I wasn't really looking for a lot of answers though. That's just not how I really ever watched the show. I liked coming up with theories with friends and speculating but from early on I didn't really need things spelled out for me to be satisfied. The fun of the show were the mysteries and leaving some things open keeps the fun alive for me.

I also teared up cause I love these characters and when the sappy flashes of remembering the island totally worked for my emotions! I mean, it wasn't Six Feet Under finale, when I had to hide my head under blankets for a day to recover, but it was a very cathartic way to say goodbye to the show.

And they didn't kill Ben!!!! I mean, everyone died sooner or later, but I didn't have to see Ben die which I was so grateful for. He's my favsies. Such a cutie!

Jimmy Kimmell was pretty fun too! Matthew Fox looked so bleary eyed when he came out, I think he had been crying.

All in all, 6 years of some damn good entertainment if you ask me.

[jimfath]

As a non-fan, the finale seemed like a big ole christian movie. I'd have been really really pissed off if I was duped into watching a Christian movie. But it seemed like there were enough confusing things to distract from the not so subtle Christian overtones.

The guy that was piloting the plane has been in several Christian movies in fact. Don't ask me why know that.

[Gograh]

The ending was the exact same as Quantum Leap, it just took a lot longer.

That said, anyone trying to convince me that the flash sideways was always expected to be purgatory will be called a liar. That seemed like a last second, hail Mary attempt to salvage a plotline that didn't work.

[Chip]

After seeing the finale and the explanation of sideways-world, I'm confused about Eloise. why was she so against them getting together? That's the one thing that feels really kludgey to me.

[Monahan]

After seeing the finale and the explanation of sideways-world, I'm confused about Eloise. why was she so against them getting together? That's the one thing that feels really kludgey to me.

Because she had killed her son in real life, she was enjoying spending time with him in sideways-world, and was afraid that Desmond was going to take him with the rest of them.

[Chip]

OK, next question: what exactly did Jughead do?

If sideways world is the afterlife, then Jughead didn't create that. So, all it did was 1) not kill eveyone and 2) propel the Losties 30 years into the future?

-Chip

[Chip]

Here is what I'm coming to realize about the finale and about the final season of Lost. I really liked the story they told, but it wasn't the story I would have preferred them telling.

Like a lot of people, what I wanted was for the writers to fill in the missing pieces that they left dangling. I think if that's the kind of show you set up, you have a responsibility to the audience to fulfill on the implied agreement you made. The implied agreement I'm talking about is this: the writers give the audience a compelling show with questions and mysteries. The audience agrees to watch the show, keeping it on the air, willing to wait for the story to be told, with the understanding that the mysteries that are set up will be revealed by the end of the show.

And I think on this point, the writers copped out. They chose to ignore many of the questions they introduced, and instead chose to turn to a mythical, ethereal, and unexplainable mysticism. If that's really what they wanted to do all along, that's fine, but then take that route for the whole show. Don't build up our expectations about the science of it all and the rational explanations that we're sure to expect, given the scientific Dharma setting that made up 4 out of 6 seasons.

What I wanted to see from the final season was those missing pieces of plot or science that I had a reasonable right to expect. 1) Who was in the outrigger canoe that shot at the time-jumping Losties? 2) What happened to Annie (the Dharma girl that was friends with childhood Ben)? 3) Why did women who got pregnant on the island die in childbirth? 4) Where'd that food airdrop come from? 5) What caused the "sickness" that caused Rousseau's crew to kill each other? These are questions that should have had tangible answers.

I think the writers could have accomplished the character resolution they wanted while still answering the questions we wanted if they'd have tried harder. But unfortunately, I think that the trying harder would have needed to come a few seasons ago. I am guessing that they didn't have answers to the questions I listed. If they did, I really don't think it would have been difficult to work the information in somewhere. And if they did have answers to those questions, I really think there's no excuse for not working them in somewhere.

I guess what I'm getting at is that Lost was set up like a sci-fi mystery, and what it ended like was a mystical...something (having trouble coming up with the right noun). I wanted it to be a cross between Pulp Fiction, Memento, Usual Suspects, and the Simpsons episode "Trilogy of Error" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilogy_of_Error). Even the crazily-complicated movie, Primer, has a worked-out sequence that explains exactly what happened and "when". It is possible to tell a good story, have the characters achieve resolution, and fill in the plot holes. I would have expected Lost to be able to do that. and that's what I wanted the finale to be.

[VinRigan]

What Chip said.

I think I'm mostly disappointed that they spent half the freakin' season setting up this cheesy, teary-eyed finale in the sideways world, when they could have trimmed that back a little and answered some questions. Not answering almost *any* of those questions, especially the big ones- like, "what the hell is the island?" -is a huge narrative cop-out. It's deus ex machina in the most textbook form, and it makes me feel like I was duped. I kept watching, not because (frankly) the writing or the acting was so bloody good, but because there was mystery going on, and I couldn't wait to see if I was right or wrong about the solution to the mystery. This ending screwed me out of it, and swapped in a romance novel ending, which just pissed me off.

Watching this series is like watching a murder mystery and having Sherlock Holmes spend the entire time picking apart scientific details, only to have it close with, "Well, Moriarty was something of an angel/devil person, or something. And Reichenbach Falls really isn't Reichenbach Falls, but maybe a Taco Bell. Or, is it...?

Thanks a lot.

[Monahan]

I think Jeff Jensen on EW.com (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html) sums up my feelings:

Opinions seem to be all over the map. Opinions also seem to be changing as emotion fades and brains take over. Was the finale profound or mawkish? What was more important: the journey or the destination? Did it the Greater Point To It All effectively render all the unanswered questions of the series moot, or does an ironic allegory for ''letting go'' and ''life is filled with loose ends and dangling plot threads'' not absolve a story from, you know, actually resolving all its gosh darn storylines?

I think fans and haters — and fans and fans-until-last-night — will be debating this for a while. NEWSFLASH! The argument will never be settled. I expect in the days to come, as I find myself in conversations with people who were disappointed, I will be asked to mount a defense of the series. I will be put on the spot to show them why it all ''made sense,'' and failing that, prove them that the show really did have a ''Greater Point To It All.'' But what is certain is that I will convince them of nothing. I also think it would be wrong and even disrespectful of me to try. Your experience of Lost is your experience of Lost, and it is valid. I presume you are intelligent people who are not blinded by personal bias. I am sorry you feel let down. But I do not share your perspective. Does that mean we can't ride the same church bus to heaven together? I hope not.

Many people are talking right now about the overt spirituality of the finale. EW's Ken Tucker saw the finale as a Christian allegory. Many others saw the finale as ambiguously and cheesily mystic. The spiritual themes of Lost have always been there. And if you didn't like them, they were easy to ignore because the show had so many other entertaining things going on. But ''The End'' seemed to be all about the spiritual stuff, and seemed to announce the whole series had been about the spiritual stuff. If you never connected with the spiritual stuff, wither your investment of time and interest in the show you thought Lost was but apparently wasn't? (As Ben said to Jacob last season: ''What about me?'' Maybe that's why you find it easy to angrily jab a knife into the heart of the show this morning.)

[Chip]

I've read Jensen's essay a couple times, and I still don't quite get what he's saying here.

I think he's saying that whether you liked it or hated it, both opinions are valid and should be respected.

Well, fine, sure. I have no problem with that.

To his question, "which is more important, the journey or the destination" I say - the question pre-supposes that one is more important than the other, when in reality both are equally important. For example: what's more important for a human to live, the brain or the heart? In answer to his question, though, I think the journey's value is lessened if you don't get where you want to go.

Will the argument never be settled? Probably not. I don't think that's really a useful statement to make, though. So what?

And the last paragraph basically seems to be saying that the story was about spiritual stuff all along, and if you didn't connect to it, too bad. Well, news flash: the story was about science all along, too, so for them to just drop that is a failing on their part.

But like I said, I enjoyed the story they told. I just don't consider it complete.

[Monahan]

And the last paragraph basically seems to be saying that the story was about spiritual stuff all along, and if you didn't connect to it, too bad. Well, news flash: the story was about science all along, too, so for them to just drop that is a failing on their part.

But like I said, I enjoyed the story they told. I just don't consider it complete.

I think it makes a tad more sense in context with the rest of his recap (from where I plucked it), but I think I disagree that the story was about science all along. The story can rightly only really be about one thing, and the other aspects are incidental and/or necessary to the telling of that story.

I think the happenings on the island involved science, but I think it's mislabeling to say they were "about" science.

Just as I think it's a mislabeling to say that the show didn't answer the questions it asked. It did, just likely not in the form that some would like them answered.

And so, those that were watching for the sole purpose of finding out exactly what the island was, they were not happy with the answer that it's the lynchpin of spiritual & physical existence. I can't claim to know what feeling I would have if that were the only reason I watched the show (much as I can't comprehend watching the show for only that reason).

I watched the show because it was an incredibly well-written & well-acted story about an enormous number of extraordinarily compelling characters stuck in a bizarre & interesting setting. I got resolution to that story.

[pinoy3D]

Last night, I watched LOST at The Brew and View at The Vic. I seriously though I would be the only person there, but it was a pretty full house. It was cool hearing people cheer when I cheered, and yell when a commercial came. And I heard a few sniffles at the end. I was choked up during the the finale, as well.

Just finished watching the LOST finale again, and I'm still a little choked up. It's great as an episode, since it's starting to make sense for me. Eloise not wanting Desmond to do his thing because she didn't want him to take Daniel away from her. And he didn't. Christian said to Jack, "Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some before you, some long after." When Ben tells Hurley that he was a great number 1 and Hurley tells Ben that he was a great number 2. They did their jobs of protecting the island. We don't know how long they did it for, but apparently they did it well. And Ben not moving on, I think because he wants to be with Alex. I wouldn't even call the flashsideways world Purgatory, since purgatory is place for temporary punishment. I don't think they were being punished. Like Christian said, it was a place they created together because they needed each other. It was just a meeting place for them.

Again, as an episode, I thought it was great. Very emotionally charged. But as a whole series wrap up, I'm left still feeling incomplete, and yet I'm still some what satisfied. I want a spin off with Hurley and Ben

[Leslieface]

I liked the finale so much, and I was so sad at the end.
I really liked what Christian said in the end about how Jack and all of them really needed each other, that got me cryin a whole bunch.

I do feel that somethings weren't answered and it kinda felt incomplete in a way because the finale seemed like it was a Season 6 finale, not the whole LOST series finale.

But in the end, I cried like a baby, it had me thinking about the show, and I had an over-all great 2 1/2 hours watching LOST.

I would love if someone had the whole series and put it in chronological order. Wouldn't that be so awesome? Past lives, island, off the island, afterlife.

[Paperbackwriter45]

Yes! For the last year I've been telling people that as soon as Lost is over I'd LOVE to see the whole thing in chronological order. I've been laughed at a lot when I say that.

But, seriously, it would be great.

And way back about the end of season 2 I kept thinking that with all this battling between science and faith, eventually the show would have to lean heavier in one directions and would lose a bunch of fans because of it. I guess the finale tilted the needle solidly over to Faith and many people didn't enjoy that.

As an avid reader of Stephen King (I've read everything no matter how awful) I'm used to unsatisfying conclusions - Dark Tower I'm looking at you. And Lost was better than that.

I mean, how do you end an epic? There would have been no way to tie up every loose end and answer every question without seeming trite. I'm satisfied with still having a few questions I'll have to make up answers to myself.

In addition, I understand Jack died saving the island, Jin died saving Sun, Sayid died saving them all, Charlie sacrificed himself for good, etc., etc....what really gets me sad is Locke. After all that he'd been through, he died thinking he was a failure. He died at the hands of Ben, after almost committing suicide, because he believed he failed. Now, ultimately his death led them back to the island and saved it...but knowing what we all know now - Locke's death seems the most tragic.

[Chip]

OK, just a couple nagging questions. ;)

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[Monahan]

I was just about to post that. Pretty great.