Grindhouse

[Bryan Cohen]

Saw this last night.

I liked both movies for different reasons. Me and my little brother love zombie/slasher flicks, so, that was the major reason for liking the Rodriguez one. Tarantino's was a bit slow at times, but it was one of the top 5 movie endings I've ever seen. Everybody in the theater clapped a good long time as a result.

Anybody else check it out?

[Don Hall]

http://donhall.blogspot.com/2007/04/grindhouse-is-about-badass-chicks.html

I loved it. Start to finish.

[Hendo]

I knew this movie was going to be long (almost 3 and a half hours), but this doesn't feel like it. I have a bad back, and sitting in one chair for that long normally bothers me, but I was so captivated and enthralled that the time flew by. I was sorry the movie was over. And even after Megan and I talked about the movie the whole way home and for another half hour after we got home, I wanted to go right out and see it again.

I know that Grindhouse isn't playing as two movies in most non-US markets, but it is here. I don't get why all the reviews I've read seperate them out and rate one movie and then the other. The whole 3 1/2 hours is intended to be ONE experience. Hence the previews before and between the movies. Hence the bleed-over of cast members from one to the other.
At the Century in Evanston, they even turned the lights up in between the movies a touch, and folks went to the john like it was an intermission... AND MISSED SOME OF THE BEST SHIT!

Seriously, if you have to pee, pee in the cup you just drank from and don't get up in between movies. DON'T! DON'T! DON'T! DON'TDON'TDON'TDON'TDON'TDON'T...DON'T!

[Chip]

Oh shit, don't miss the previews/in-betweenviews!

That's some of the best stuff!

-Chip

[Digger]

I can't wait to see this movie.

[DennisOT]

First movie I ever walked out on. Rodriguez's part sucked but was bearable, Tarantino's was the talkiest piece of shit I ever saw. I knew it would end with some action sequence, but I decided it would not be worth the wait. I looked at my watch while some New Zealand chick droned on and on and on about a 1970 Dodge Charger and movies only Quentin Tarantino saw, and I thought, "You know, you spend all week bored at work. Why be bored for another minute on your day off?"

So I went outside and fixed the breaks on my bike while my pals finished the movie. My breaks were far, far more interesting.

[Bryan Cohen]

If you had had faith in Tarantino, you would have gotten more than your money's worth back.

[Honey]

No...I'm afraid Mister OT is almost entirely accurate in his accessment of Grindhouse.

And by "almost entirely accurate"? I mean 100% wrong, with regard to his description of Rodriguez's Planet Terror.

Because- wait a minute, here.

Is there anyone posting in this thread, besides me, of course, that's even old enough to recall a real grindhouse film? I'm talking about films like Coffy, The BOD Squad, I Spit On Your Grave, and the like, and not viewed on DVD, but the real-deal? Sticky-floor theater, nasty-seats mended with duct-tape...or maybe viewed at a drive-in, the way I saw some of these films?

If you are...if you did? Then, you'll know. Rodriguez nailed it, solid...camera-angles, acting style, costumes, plot, dialogue, scratchy celluloid, missing reel, camera-flare...Planet Terror, straight-up, a grindhouse home-run.

So...how did Tarentino, of all people, get it so wrong? Long stretches of needless dialogue, and not enough action, seriously. No T 'n A, no cat-fight, and too many close-ups of bare-feet for my taste...he had all the right elements, and missed it, totally missed it- swear to God, Death Proof was so boring, that if this was an actual film playing at the drive-in, circa '73?

People would have been streaking between the parked cars, out of sheer boredom...that is, the people who weren't busy making babies in the backseats.

Several of you were conceived in this manner, I'm sure.

[Scol]

I agree that Tarantino was less faithful to the genre than Rodriguez, but I liked his film anyway. He always subverts his influences. I did find Death Proof a little talkier than I would have liked, but it has payoffs a-plenty, and it's kinda cool that there's character development and female bonding in a grindhouse flick.

QT's films are all talky. That's part of what he does. I assume that the deal was for Rodriguez to deliver heavier doses of period-style schlock, so that Tarantino was free to step outside of things a bit. Of course, he gave us shitloads of action in the final twenty minutes.

Taken as an overall experience, the genre was served, big time. You really have to include those hilarious coming attractions, which both directors probably had a big hand in.

An added bonus for me: The old man in the back row, loudly voicing his disgust. "What the hell kinda movie is this?" "How the hell did he survive that?" "Oh my God, no."

[DennisOT]

No T 'n A

Nope, just A.

and too many close-ups of bare-feet for my taste...

I think in the Seinfeld dichotomy of Leg or Breast man, we can safely place Quentin T. in the Leg category. It's the yang to a Russ Meyer movie, a film for people who like shorts a ton.

[Juan]

I was suppose to see this movie with my gay friend who assures me it's not a date but I couldn't go because I had my girlfriend coming over Easter Sunday and that tip the scales by a lot. I'll check out the movie soon.

[Honey]

No, yeah, look...and I'm speaking as a huge Tarantino fan, by the way, as a someone who's adored QT from jump. Love his films, love the details, love his dialogue...


And trust me, I wanted to love Death Proof, I really did. I was straining to love Death Proof, kept seeing those little flashes of the QT I love, kept saying okay, all right, now it's gonna come together...


But this is grindhouse- you hand me this genre, you say to me, you're gonna make a grindhouse film...


Let's just say you do this, and, for fun? Let's just say I'm already an established film-maker, known for films whimsical and melancholy by turns, beautiful, stealthy character development, with dialogue as clever as a song by Cole Porter, and images filled with visual metaphors.


You get the idea.


But you said grindhouse...dialogue? Forget it, a real grindhouse film cuts all that chit-chat. Visual metaphor? Please...I'm gonna have to throw in a gratuitous near-rape scene which is somehow going to end with a car exploding, I'll have to find a way to make the exploding car cause the girl's top to fall off, I'm gonna have to toss in a scene with about six bikini-girls with machine guns pissed off because their car exploded, and?


I've got to get all this done in the first twenty-minutes or so.


Because this is grindhouse, and the genre is greater than I.


I'll have to put everything I know about film-making aside, because it's not about me.

Oh, I can put my own stamp on it, somehow, but it isn't about me, it's about the genre, and I'm an established film-maker, up for a challenge.


Here's what might have helped...tell Tarantino You're gonna make a grindhouse film?


But the budget is only $100,000.


There! Done...you'd better believe, at that point? There would be no close-ups of feet, no yak-yak, no. It'd be one-take, no re-take, and you'd light scenes by car-headlight. You'd hire real hookers and strippers instead of actresses, because you've got to save money.


Exploding cars don't come cheap.


Editting? Forget it, done fast and cheap, and to hell with continuity, nobody cares, anyway. Because all your audience wants to see is tits, blood, guns, and cars exploding.


That's what I'm talking about- man! I mean, Rose McGowan and Kurt Russell are talking at the bar, I turn to my seatmate, say I'll be right back, and upon my return? They were still talking, and I'm all like, He didn't get her in the car, yet?


For fuck's sake!- my movie?


He would have gotten her and six more done in the time it took me to go to the bathroom.

[ladym]

I know this is not a shocker...

BUt I LOVED this movie.
it's kind of the movie I've been waiting for since I was 16.
Only I wish Joan Jett was in it and then it would be perfect.

[ladym]

I just wanted to say one more thing in defense of Mr. Tarantino...
if I can call him that.

I think that any time you go into his movies...
at this point...
you just have to know what to expect.

When he recreates a genre... he's not doing a remake...
he doing a romanticized reshaping of the genre.
His own romanticized retelling of it.

and in Mr. Tarantino's romanticized retelling of anything...
the women are curvy and fight back, the discussions are long and involve a pretencious dialogue about vintage movies/cartoons/tv shows/ music, the bad guys are really cool and charming/ and the gore is extreme.

I think we all get that by now.
so I sort of find it funny when people get fed up with his films...
cause it's like.... "you knew what you were getting into"

and personally I find his creative imagination super charming and fun to watch.
I think he could stand to take an acting class, but other than that...
You know by now wether you like his style or not, and it's probably only going to get more exagerated the older he gets.
na mean?

I think the whole first half of the second feature was one of the sexiest shot films I've seen in a long time.

[Daddy]

Here's the difference: Rodriguez wrote "Planet Terror", wrote the soundtrack, directed it, and promptly stayed the hell out of the way. He blended into the background and let the "bad film" speak for itself. He wasn't the focus. Tarantino never let you forget that you were watching a Tarantino film and it took all the attention off the actual story. You saw "Vanishing Point", you like black womens' asses. We get it, QT. Shut up.

Also, Tarantino wins the "Lady in the Water" award for directors who should never get in front of the goddamn camera again.

End of the day, "Planet Terror" is The Greatest B-Movie of All Time, and "Death Proof" is more about QT's foot fetish than muscle cars.

[Forsythe]

1. Yes, there were shots of women's feet. But not enough for me to be like "enough with the feet shots QT!"

2. I liked the overall movie watching experience. The trailers for Matchette, Don't Scream, Thanksgiving, and the Rob Zombie one, were all great. (Don't Scream was my favorite part of the whole "movie.") Death Proof was good and a tab too talky. Terror Planet was hilarious but a way tad too much of a gross out. If you were to take these two films at all seriously, individually they are pretty bad. The plot for Terror Planet was retarded-dumb and the plot for Death Proof I could actually see happening.

Rodriguez was making an intentionally bad movie. The actors were acting bad on purpose, the story was bad on purpose, the editing and continuity was bad on purpose. QT was trying to make an "under-rated but actually good" Grindhouse film. In his, the acting was good, the editing was trying to be good (the missing reel gags are actually due to the movie theaters of the time, not the studios), the stunts were very good, and the special effects were believable.

That said, his movie was way too talky. Yes, when you go to a QT movie, you get talky-talky; Kill Bill Vol. 1 being the exception, in that movie, I thought he did a killer job in limiting his dialogue. Maybe that's why I didn't like Vol. 2 as much; all the dialogue is in that half of the film.

But this film was being promoted as a double feature of Grindhouse films. As such, we were expecting the genre Grindhouse to be at the forefront. With Rodriguez, it was. But not so with QT. Had QT's movie been released alone, it would have probably been received better because it would have been a QT movie flavored by Grindhouse. That's what you got and that's why those who were expecting a Grindhouse flavored by QT were disappointed.

3. In the end, I liked the experience of the movies. I probably won't ever really watch it again, and most certainly not alone since this movie works best with a large group of friends. I actually liked QT's movie a little better than Rodriguez's, but that's because I'm not really a Grindhouse fan and I think as a film, it's obviously better. But it still was too talky. The argument between the two tough ladies about doing the car stunt took way too long to get anywhere.

[Frank Vu]

I didn't like Terror Planet. I never understood why being a good bad movie automatically makes it a good movie...unless it's actually a good movie. "Adaptation" being the perfect example and "8 1/2" to a certain degree. Otherwise, it's too self-indulgent for me.

In contrast, I LOVE Deathproof. To me the dialogue was intentionally long and boring for 2 reasons.

1. To get you friendly and invested with the characters which ratchet ups the tension at the end because you really care about these girls. (Fellas, how many inane girl conversations about shoes and co-workers have you listened to just cuz you liked the girl?)

2. To lull you into thinking that the movie is boring...so boring that you cannot imagine this movie ending with a good climax.

Well the ending rocked my face off.

[Scol]

In defense of Planet Terror, there's a difference between deliberately making a bad movie, and making a movie you love, even if the genre is generally perceived to be bad. Rodriguez clearly has affection for the style, and his sense of fun and joy is all over the thing.

And I agree that the long stretches of girl-talk in Death Proof are there for effect. The contrast worked. I'm not super familiar with the genre, but I bet if you went back and looked at all the old grindhouse flicks, you'd probably find a few that had long lulls between the action sequences.

I hear that in Europe they're releasing them seperately, and may even do that here in the states. What a stupid idea.

[Frank Vu]

In defense of Planet Terror, there's a difference between deliberately making a bad movie, and making a movie you love, even if the genre is generally perceived to be bad. Rodriguez clearly has affection for the style, and his sense of fun and joy is all over the thing.
.

I agree that there is a difference, I just don't think that's what Rodriguez is doing.

The genre is horror/zombie, and there are good movies in that genre, but Rodriguez chose to make a bad horror/zombie movie, with deliberately poor acting, self-conscious cinematography and missing reels.

An example of what you're talking about is Shaun of the Dead, where the horror/zombie genre is generally percieved as feckless and shallow, and Edgar Wright, who's said he loves the genre, decided to spoof those moments, while putting in some social satire.

[mattyb]

i saw the movie and it was just plain too long.
it was just okay for me.
the taranteeeeno part was boring i thought. a one trick pony that revolved around a stunt (which was badass, sure, but the dialogue was boring.) and the rodreeeegeze part i wanted to see more rose mcgoweeene with her gun leg.
i liked josh brooooolin for some reason.
maybe it was his goatee.

also it should be noted i know nothing about grindhouse movies.

sincerely,
roger eberrrrrrrrt

[Aaroneous]

just saw grindhouse. i liked it.

[jimfath]

I don't plan on seeing this... I am luke warm to Tarintino to begin with and Grind House sounds like a film school exercise with a big budget. I'd be more impressed if they made these on the proportionate budget of the movies they were aiming to imitate. I'd be curious to see if they could pull it off. I doubt it would get green lit though.

I guess it would help to Like Tarentino movies.

[HeatherConnelly]

Of the trailers... Don't! was made by our friends from Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz.

[sammy]

bootlegged, but still great. NSFW!

MACHETE!
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DON'T
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THANKSGIVING!
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Grindhouse Trailer Competition Winner: Hobo With a Shotgun
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[elvk]

See the movies as they were in the theatre. Back to back with with effing hilarious trailers.

don't fuck with a mexican.

[Biddle]

I'm really surprised that the boobs in the "Thanksgiving" trailer are still up on Youtube. Isn't that a direct violation of their anti-boob, anti-nudity rule? Viva la revolucion! COB

[Edison]

Is there anyone posting in this thread, besides me, of course, that's even old enough to recall a real grindhouse film? I'm talking about films like Coffy, The BOD Squad, I Spit On Your Grave, and the like, and not viewed on DVD, but the real-deal? Sticky-floor theater, nasty-seats mended with duct-tape...or maybe viewed at a drive-in, the way I saw some of these films?

If you are...if you did? Then, you'll know. Rodriguez nailed it, solid...camera-angles, acting style, costumes, plot, dialogue, scratchy celluloid, missing reel, camera-flare...Planet Terror, straight-up, a grindhouse home-run.

I second that emotion.

It's been interesting to see how mis-perceived Grindhouse has been to younger audiences. And this is one of those movies where context offers a more sublime experience.

I'm old enough to have been in a few grindhouses, certainly many a drive-in double feature, and regardless of the movies playing, it's an experience unto it's own. One that I don't get enough of anymore.
..And yes, the low-budget exploitation fodder that filled these dank theaters and monstrous outdoor screens were made fast, cheap, and prolifically.

And sometimes brilliantly.
Wes Craven's Last House on the Left? At a funky old Drive-In?
Can I get an amen from the choir?

So...how did Tarentino, of all people, get it so wrong? Long stretches of needless dialogue, and not enough action, seriously. No T 'n A, no cat-fight, and too many close-ups of bare-feet for my taste...he had all the right elements, and missed it, totally missed it- swear to God, Death Proof was so boring, that if this was an actual film playing at the drive-in, circa '73?
Tarantino seems to be in his own world now and I think Death Proof shows that. I did like much of Death Proof, but I've been a fan of Kurt Russell's since his days with Disney. I laughed out loud at the ending. His crybaby antics were fucking hilarious.
Of the two in Grindhouse, Rodrigues' film was the more affectionate. I think at this point Tarantino has already been re-inventing the genre and got self-indulged in trying to make Death Proof unique.

Really, if we're talking an earnest homage to the grindhouse/exploitation genre, QT came much closer with Jackie Brown. it's like a Jack Hill movie, but effectively contemporized. Kill Bill is peppered with Kung-Fu and exploitation cliche' too*. It's a genre from which Tarantino has been borrowing all along.

In all, I was willing to accept Grindhouse on it's own merit. It was just plain fun and they kept tongue firmly in cheek, but held up against the real McCoy, Planet Terror was the truer of the two.

That's my 2.


*Check out the 1974 Swedish Exploitation film Thriller.

BTW: nice to see you on the board again, doubleC.

[Edison]

..and regarding the recent homages to exploitation;

Rob Zombie should be acknowledged for stepping up to the plate with The Devil's Rejects.

..Ok, most agree that House of 1000 Corpses kinda took the pipe, but Zombie focused up with his second outing, capturing the subtleties of the genre and taking it up a notch without getting too silly.

Rejects stands strong as contemporary exploitation/grindhouse cinema. At times disturbing, decidedly gratuitous, ..and a rockin' good ride. Casting Sid Haig was nothing short of brilliant. He's never been creepier.
The supplement disc that accompanies the DVD release, called 30 Days in Hell thoroughly documents the filming of Rejects, and reveals Zombie's dedication and resourcefulness, given his relatively low budget ($7 Million) and grueling 28 day shooting schedule.